Clonsilla to Drogheda journey

[Padna]

My son is planning to travel from Clonsilla to Drogheda a couple of days from now. At the time of day he will be travelling the ticket office in Clonsilla will be closed and, as far as I know, he won't be able to buy a student single ticket to Drogheda from the TVM in Clonsilla (as it's not one of the available destinations on the TVM).

The journey planner on the Irish Rail website shows a suitable journey with a 12 minute connection time in Connolly. Would he be obliged to go to the ticket office in Connolly during that 12 minute period to buy himself a ticket to Drogheda? I'm concerned that he might miss the train to Drogheda by doing so, especially if the train from Clonsilla arrives behind achedule.

I have looked at the possibility of buying him a ticket online, but that option isn't available for Clonsilla to Drogheda journeys and, in the case of Connolly to Drogheda journeys, is only available on Enterprise services. However he plans to travel onwards to Drogheda on a commuter service. It is also cheaper to buy a through ticket from Clonsilla to Drogheda (€13.00 student single) versus buying separate tickets (as it costs €12.40 for a student single from Connolly to Drogheda).

A more general question arising from this particular situation is why aren't tickets to all destinations on sale from the TVMs and/or online?

[Colm Moore]

The ticket(s) can be bought in advance and, in theory, from any staffed station.

Clonsilla is station code 94, and Drogheda (MacBride) is 120.

You can see the fares here: http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/fare_calc_2014.php?station_from=CLSLA&station_to=DGHDA&stage1=Submit+Query

[Padna]

In a situation like this, is there an obligation to visit a station in advance at a time when the booking office there is open, in order to buy the ticket? Or is it acceptable to pay the fare on board the train (if there is a ticket inspector on the train) or at the final destination (if it is staffed at the time of arrival)?

[James Howard]

Have a look at this document

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/fixedpenaltydlleaflet1.pdf?v=grhucpe

Point 4 states "If you board a service without a valid ticket, at a station
where a ticket selling facility was provided, you will be
issued a fixed penalty notice." Given that he won't be able to buy a ticket for his journey, a ticket selling facility was not provided.

So long as your son is polite to any ticket inspector, he should be OK. There is a cabin on platform 4 of Connolly where they sell tickets and it should be possible to get a ticket there in a 12 minute window, but failing that somebody at Drogheda would probably die with fright if he tried to buy a ticket at the destination.

But as Colm stated, the lowest hassle thing to do would probably be to buy the ticket in a advance at a booking office as there is a strong possibility of him meeting a ticket inspector who won't believe his story. It says a lot that people who want to buy tickets for a rail journey feel scared to travel without having to make another journey to actually buy a ticket. Not exactly convenient. Also, if he is travelling during the day, he will quite likely be the only person on the train who has bought a ticket.

[Mark Gleeson]

As of December 9th in theory Irish Rail are breaking EU law by not selling the ticket required

Pay at the other end or if convenient at the point of changing trains applies

I am looking for a formal on the record written response from Irish Rail

[Jamie2k9]

Surly TMVs can be updated. All tickets within the GDA commuter zone should be available. Is it possible?

[James Howard]

It is difficult to see why the TVMs are the way they are. The last time I checked, you couldn't buy a ticket to Dun Laoghaire from the TVM in Edgeworthstown so it is not unreasonable to get onto a train without a ticket if the office is closed.

But this means that this is an ideal fare-dodging excuse. If you get caught without a ticket, just way you want a ticket to Dun Laoghaire and you can't be prosecuted. If you don't get caught, just get off at an unmanned station and you're away without paying.

But as usual, the customer who wants to be honest is left in fear that they are going to be hit with a fine because they can't buy the proper ticket and will either but a more expensive ticket or take the car because it's all too much bother.

[Mark Gleeson]

TVM's in the short hop zone issue tickets for all possible short hop destinations.

The issue here is the cheapest fare for this journey is actually

Clonsilla - Balbriggan
&
Balbriggan - Drogheda

But you must travel on a commuter train as you must stop in Balbriggan.

The issue with split tickets is why the TVM doesn't issue all possible destinations. The matrix in the TVM is the same as the booking office

So say
Blackrock - Wicklow, works same route
Clonsilla - Longford, works same route
Clonsilla - Drogheda, cross route <= there is no matrix for this

[James Howard]

How is it that the UK system which is probably two orders of magnitude more complicated (c 10 times the number of stations x c 10 times the number of companies) can manage to sell you an internet ticket between any two stations on the network? thetrainline.com can manage to sell me a ticket from Burscough Bridge, Lancs to Athlone that involves 6 changes yet Irish Rail can't get you from Clonsilla to Drogheda.

The anomaly with split tickets being cheaper than a direct journey is by no means unique to Ireland.

[comcor]

I recently bought a ticket from Manchester Airport to Chester.

They offered two different prices, one valid only via Crewe and the other valid on any route.

Could the same not be done in this case?

[Padna]

The issue here is the cheapest fare for this journey is actually

Clonsilla - Balbriggan
&
Balbriggan - Drogheda

But you must travel on a commuter train as you must stop in Balbriggan.

Is a passenger allowed to travel with separate Clonsilla-Balbriggan and Balbriggan-Drogheda tickets if he/she travels on a commuter service to Drogheda which stops in Balbriggan, but he/she doesn't get off the train in Balbriggan and wait for the next train from there to Drogheda?

[Mark Gleeson]

No need to change trains, but the train must stop at Balbriggan

While in theory under the T&C's there is a line which says you cannot do this, Irish Rail has no legal comeback as you always have a valid ticket at all times per bye law 4 , and you are not under traveling to save money per bye law 6.


There are certain benefits with a direct ticket, e.g if an advertised connection is missed due delay and a delay of 1 hour arriving in Drogheda occurs 50% refund is due

[berneyarms]

How is it that the UK system which is probably two orders of magnitude more complicated (c 10 times the number of stations x c 10 times the number of companies) can manage to sell you an internet ticket between any two stations on the network? thetrainline.com can manage to sell me a ticket from Burscough Bridge, Lancs to Athlone that involves 6 changes yet Irish Rail can't get you from Clonsilla to Drogheda.

The anomaly with split tickets being cheaper than a direct journey is by no means unique to Ireland.

On a side note - never book with thetrainline.com as it has extra charges.

You can book any UK train ticket on any individual operators websites without incurring extra charges.