Enterprise fleet refurbishment

[Colm Moore]

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/improving-your-enterprise-serviceImproving your Enterprise Service
28 October 2014

Improving your Enterprise Service

A major upgrade of the Belfast to Dublin ‘Enterprise’ Carriages is currently taking place. The upgrade involves a significant overhaul of the train’s mechanical systems, new interiors, new livery, replacement of the Passenger Information System and a completely new electronic passenger reservation system and CCTV system. This mid-life refurbishment is designed to make rail transport between Ireland’s two largest cities even more comfortable and attractive for our existing and prospective customers.

To enable refurbishment works to these carriages, the regular Enterprise Train will be replaced by Irish Rail Intercity Diesel Railcars (ICR) on the following services from 17th November;

* 07:35hrs Connolly Belfast
* 10:35hrs Belfast Connolly
* 13:20hrs Connolly Belfast
* 16:05hrs Belfast Connolly
* 19:00 Connolly Belfast
* 21:35 Belfast Connolly

The 20:05hrs service from Belfast to Dublin Connolly will be deferred until 21:35hrs until further notice.

There will also be a new 10:30hrs service from Belfast to Connolly on Saturdays only in the run up to the Christmas period.

These services will have reduced 1st Plus and Enterprise capacity. More information is available at www.translink.co.uk/enterpriseupgrade , who are undertaking the refurbishment project on behalf of both companies.


http://www.translink.co.uk/enterpriseupgradeEnterprise Refurbishment Programme

The Enterprise service has long been considered a relaxing way to go to Dublin whether you’re travelling on business or for leisure. Operating eight services in each direction, Monday to Saturday and five journeys in each direction on Sundays, it offers a high quality, value for money service which is convenient, comfortable and a safe travel option.

As part of our commitment to maintaining our high standards of quality and comfort on board, a £12.2million refurbishment program is underway to deliver the following enhancements:

* A significant overhaul of the train’s mechanical systems,
* Modern attractive new interiors / seating
* New 21st Century livery
* Replacement of the Passenger Information System
* A new electronic passenger reservation system
* New CCTV system

The scheme which is financed through the European Union’s INTERREG IVA Programme, managed by the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB), with support from the Department for Regional Development, is due to be completed by the end of 2015.

This is our flagship service and last year (2013 – 2014) almost 840,000 people choose to travel to Dublin on the Enterprise. This major overhaul will not only allow us to ensure the long-term reliability of the service but will deliver improved passenger features to enhance overall customer satisfaction and help encourage even more people to use the service.

We plan to carry out the work to the carriages on a rolling programme and will make every effort to minimise the overall disruption for our customers. Our colleagues in Irish Rail will also be carrying out major engineering works on the Enterprise Locomotives as part of this project.

The main overhaul work is now underway. During this time we are substituting one of the Enterprise trains with an Irish Rail Rotem train (On occasion we may also operate some services with our own modern N I Railways fleet).

A revised Enterprise timetable will be in place from Sunday 16th November.In order to minimize the impact of this project on cross border services, timetable frequency and journey times have been maintained.

We will keep our customers updated as this project progresses.

This scheme is a joint project with Irish Rail with Translink N I Railways leading the overall programme. In tandem there is a further EU funded scheme underway to carry out major refurbishment work to the Drogheda Viaduct also due to be completed during 2015. Our colleagues in Irish Rail are leading this project.

Upon completion, both projects will enhance one of our main cross-border transport links, thereby supporting trade and tourism development for a more prosperous and sustainable region.


Background
Enterprise Service first introduced September 1997


Project objectives:
* Engineered to meet the latest industry standards and support the remaining life of the train
* Maintain the safety of the Enterprise trains
* Maintain the reliability of the Enterprise trains
* Ensure that the Enterprise trains have the potential to achieve a full 30 year life
* Ensure that the Enterprise trains meet customers’ requirements and expectations in 2015 and for the next 10-15 years

Key changes: Interiors
* Existing seats retained but overhauled, re-engineered with grab handles, new cushions / fabric in modern design and trim
* New tables with attractive finishes
* New lighting and electrical sockets
* New carpets throughout to new designs
* Window trims repainted
* New window blinds fitted
* New pelmet design to incorporate new electronic seat reservation displays and new lighting units.
* New efficient eco lighting installed
* All interior trims replaced with new design
* Handrail refurbished/replaced to new colours.
* Vestibules/door interiors repainted
* Toilets revamped; Painted in new colours; sink units replaced
* Catering car revamped in new colours/new finishes. Redesigned to better service passenger demands.
* Signage upgrades to meet new standards

Key changes: Exteriors
* Attractive new livery
* Enhanced signage to meet latest EU standards

Key changes: New Systems
* New audio and visual passenger information system.
* New passenger alarm system
* New Public address system
* New Train Management System
* Upgraded saloon and forward facing CCTV
* New electronic Seat Reservation System

[Colm Moore]

Any comments?

Am I right that the existing carriages don't have wheelchair accessible toilets?

[Mark Gleeson]

Current toilet is accessible but does not meet current regs

[Padna]

I know I'm not sticking to the topic, but do Translink not realise that the Enterprise serves other stations besides Dublin? Twice in their statement they seem to be ignoring this fact:

"The Enterprise service has long been considered a relaxing way to go to Dublin whether you’re travelling on business or for leisure".

"last year (2013 – 2014) almost 840,000 people choose to travel to Dublin on the Enterprise".

The on-board magazine would also give you the impression that this train does not serve anywhere between Dublin and Belfast. It often features articles on events and attractions in the two cities, but I've never seen anything in it about Drogheda, Dundalk, Newry, Portadown or Lisburn.

[Jamie2k9]

Is there really much point in forward facing CCTV when the 201 won't have it.

Will the Mark IV's be the only rolling stock without some form of external CCTV after this?

There seems to be a lot of "repainting" rather that refurbishing of certain aspects. Something which may cost more long term.

Whats a Train Management System?

[Mark Gleeson]

Mk4 DVT has a camera

At the moment Enterprise is old fashioned, so to change the AC settings or check a toilet you have to check each coach control panel. Train management system would show you the status of all systems across the train in one place.

Mk4 and 22k have this as standard

In theory it would allow maintenance to monitor the train in the field and react to issues.

[RHanaway]

For several days this week the enterprise seems to be one carriage down.
When it reaches Drogheda it's full with people standing between carriages.
Does anyone know if this has to do with the refurbishment?
As a result many of the commuters have needed to get the 8:35.

[Jamie2k9]

Missing a first class coach, one of the new sets will likely be back soon enough

[Mark Gleeson]

A first class coach is missing. That said this should have no impact on crowding as you can only stand in first if you have a first class ticket.

Expect to see a C3K train on the 06:50 ex Belfast from late May

[Jamie2k9]

A first class coach is missing. That said this should have no impact on crowding as you can only stand in first if you have a first class ticket.

Expect to see a C3K train on the 06:50 ex Belfast from late May

What happened to doing it one by one?

They have one full set out and around 5 coaches from a spare set, surly they can't have them all completed already?

[Inniskeen]

6 x C3k on 0650, 1235 and 1805 from Belfast and 0935, 1520 and 2050 from Dublin commencing May 25th.

1900 will operate to an accelerated schedule from 1st of June arriving in Belfast from June 1st. From the same date the 2135 from Belfast is being advanced to 2115, will no longer serve Lisburn and is due to arrive in Dublin at 2312.

[ACustomer]

Inniskeen (and others):. I can see that Translink are showing restrictions or non-availability of First class accommodation in June. However Irish Rail's travel plannre is showing unchanged schedules and First class on all trains. So is this the usual Irish Rail dopey website performance?

Also why is there such a large disruption to what is the only reliable First class service left? Do they want it to go the way of the Cork line? I would have thought that a properly planned refurbishment would have provided a less disruptive and more even progression of the work.

[Jamie2k9]

Inniskeen (and others):. I can see that Translink are showing restrictions or non-availability of First class accommodation in June. However Irish Rail's travel plannre is showing unchanged schedules and First class on all trains. So is this the usual Irish Rail dopey website performance?

Also why is there such a large disruption to what is the only reliable First class service left? Do they want it to go the way of the Cork line? I would have thought that a properly planned refurbishment would have provided a less disruptive and more even progression of the work.

I don't think the removal of the first class coach is a major issue but suspect that it may be down to increasing number commuting from Dundalk/Drogheda.

As for the website, the majority of passengers affected by CK3 change will be NI based bookings so either so either they have not informed IE yet or IE hasn't updated the information.

[EnterpriseUser]

it looks like two Enterprise sets will be unavailable from June so the service will consist of one Belfast based Enterprise set; an IE 22000 with First (its actually ok) and an NIR C3 set with a trolley. We need more information as the service now lacks consistency. How long, for example? If another Enterprise set is unavailable why not roster another 22000 set even if it has to overnight in Belfast? I think NIR and IE need to give passengers a better explanation of the necessity for the downgrade of a consistent Enterprise offering.

[Jamie2k9]

it looks like two Enterprise sets will be unavailable from June so the service will consist of one Belfast based Enterprise set; an IE 22000 with First (its actually ok) and an NIR C3 set with a trolley. We need more information as the service now lacks consistency. How long, for example? If another Enterprise set is unavailable why not roster another 22000 set even if it has to overnight in Belfast? I think NIR and IE need to give passengers a better explanation of the necessity for the downgrade of a consistent Enterprise offering.

IE cannot roster another set because they simply do not have the capacity combined with the fact NI based crew would require training. The 6 coach C3 will match the DD stock capacity better than IEs 5 coach 22s 402 over 304 seats.

I really cannot understand why they will take 2 full sets out and their own spare set at the same time. Are they trying to speed up the refurbishment process.

One would assume that the set being removed from service will be the set which is down a coach and the full DD set will move from the 06.50 to the 08.00 roster.

[EnterpriseUser]

Well they actually do given the underutilisation of the Mark IV fleet where at least two sets languish out of use!

[Jamie2k9]

Well they actually do given the underutilisation of the Mark IV fleet where at least two sets languish out of use!

Won't make difference now that 5 Mark IV are back in use. 3/4 coach sets work a few others which wouldn't be enough for Belfast service. 5 at a minimum is required and IE really can't afford to let 2 (3 coach sets) go. Then Fridays/Saturdays/Sundays would be completely ruled out. Then there is the training, by the time it would be completed the first DD set will be back.

[berneyarms]

I believe that the refurbishment programme is running behind schedule.

To qualify for the EU grant, the project has to be completed by a certain date. What that date is I am not sure, but it's later this year.

In order to meet that date, the programme has to be accelerated and as a result more coaches than originally planned will have to be removed from service at the one time.

There is no way that IE 22k sets are going to be left overnight in Belfast.

NIR crews are not trained up on them, and it simply isn't practical to train them in the timeframe involved, so they have to return with their crew to Dublin, and also there are no spare sets.

[Jamie2k9]

I believe that the refurbishment programme is running behind schedule.

To qualify for the EU grant, the project has to be completed by a certain date. What that date is I am not sure, but it's later this year.

In order to meet that date, the programme has to be accelerated and as a result more coaches than originally planned will have to be removed from service at the one time.

There is no way that IE 22k sets are going to be left overnight in Belfast.

NIR crews are not trained up on them, and it simply isn't practical to train them in the timeframe involved, so they have to return with their crew to Dublin, and also there are no spare sets.

By 31 December 2015 will mean they had 18 months approval by the EU yet it was at least 4 months before the first full DD was withdrawn...

[Inniskeen]

While I agree it is unlikely that ICRs will overnight in Belfast in the short term, it is hard to believe that NIR drivers would face too steep a learning curve to become competent in the units. The current situation in relation to driver competence creates inflexibilities which have the potential to cause major operational difficulties should a driver be unable to continue driving mid-trip for one reason or another.

[berneyarms]

By 31 December 2015 will mean they had 18 months approval by the EU yet it was at least 4 months before the first full DD was withdrawn...

Clearly there were issues - what they were I don't know.

But I'm not really sure what your point is - problems can crop up with any project in any organisation - I would doubt Translink were just sitting around for four months doing nothing.

[Mark Gleeson]

The problems are very similar to the DART refurbishment project, bad management and control. I doubt York Road has the space to take another set of coaches. As early as January the program was already a month behind.

The contract for the carpets was only signed in March, there were 15 odd contract lots and I know the names of only 5 companies awarded so odds are other bits are sitll in limbo

The first carriage entered the shed on November 12th, so 5 months to decide on carpet is a farce. There are also major compliance issues in terms of accessibility which could sink the whole project due people not reading up on the legal requirements.

There isn't really an issue with NIR staff driving an 22k, the train is compliant with UK reg. The train doesn't have guards panels and no provision for door release/close from the rear cab so it doesn't work with NIR's conductor operation with local door control, it could be done but in the 21st century it gets messed up with safety requirements and reviews for something IE have done for years. IE driving a C3K would be easier has its basically a pimped out 29k

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/enterpriseupgrade


Improving your Enterprise Service - Train set changes from Monday 25th May

10 May 2015

A major upgrade of the Belfast to Dublin ‘Enterprise’ Carriages is currently taking place.

The Enterprise service has long been considered a relaxing way to travel between Dublin and Belfast, whether you’re travelling on business or for leisure. Operating eight services in each direction, Monday to Saturday and five journeys in each direction on Sundays, it offers a high quality, value for money service which is convenient, comfortable and a safe travel option.

As part of our commitment to maintaining our high standards of quality and comfort on board, a refurbishment program is underway to deliver the following enhancements:

A significant overhaul of the train’s mechanical systems,
Modern attractive new interiors/seating,
New 21st Century livery,
Replacement of the Passenger Information System,
A new electronic passenger reservation system,
New CCTV system.
This mid-life refurbishment is designed to make rail transport between Ireland’s two largest cities even more comfortable and attractive for our existing and prospective customers.

The scheme which is financed through the European Union’s INTERREG IVA Programme, managed by the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB), with support from the Department for Regional Development, is due to be completed by the end of 2015.

To enable refurbishment works to these carriages, the regular Enterprise Train will be replaced by Irish Rail Intercity Diesel Railcars (ICR) and CAF sets on the following services;

06:50hrs Belfast Connolly - CAF
07:35hrs Connolly Belfast - ICR
09:35hrs Connolly Belfast - CAF
10:35hrs Belfast Connolly - ICR
11:05hrs (Sun only) Belfast Connolly - CAF
12:35hrs Belfast Connolly - CAF
13:20hrs Connolly Belfast - ICR
14:00hrs (Sun only) Connolly Belfast - CAF
15:20hrs Connolly Belfast - CAF
16:05hrs Belfast Connolly - ICR
18:05hrs Belfast Connolly - CAF
19:00hrs Connolly Belfast - ICR
20:50hrs Connolly Belfast - CAF
21:35hrs Belfast Connolly - ICR
The ICR services will have reduced 1st Plus and Enterprise capacity.

The CAF services will be operated by non Enterprise trains and therefore cannot offer First plus or catering facilities.

More information is available at www.translink.co.uk/enterpriseupgrade , who are undertaking the refurbishment project on behalf of both companies.

The 20:05hrs service from Belfast to Dublin Connolly will be deferred until 21:35hrs until further notice.

Additional Dundalk to Dublin Connolly service - Monday to Friday
Due to reduced capacity on the 06.50hrs Belfast Central to Dublin Connolly service from Monday 25th May, Iarnród Éireann Irish Rail will be operating an additional service from Dundalk, departing at 07.55hrs Monday – Friday, calling at Drogheda at 08.18hrs, arriving into Dublin Connolly at 09.03hrs.

A revised Sunday timetable will also come into effect on Enterprise services from Sunday 16th November to better match customer demand, click for full information on these changes.

[Jamie2k9]

I'm told that NI still don't an a date for when the first set will return to service, anyone in IE side know any more and what sort of progress have they made since May?

[irishsaint]

I'm told that NI still don't an a date for when the first set will return to service, anyone in IE side know any more and what sort of progress have they made since May?

First Enterprise set was supposed to be put back into service on 28th Sept however I understand there is a delay with testing and while they hope to have it back in play on the 5th Oct it will most likely be the 12th Oct. It will be the 8am from Belfast - the other 2 sets will be well into next year, they are way behind schedule. Have a look at some of the pics of the refurbished Enterprise.

Edit... had issue uploading images, shared links instead.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x7d5qpukw6ej7k3/IMG_3605.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zgzybguwtsfp3fm/IMG_3606.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1di5qp7c8qzh72w/IMG_3607.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/159cmd5fmn3oxfw/IMG_3608.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fbf2jg3ladvz40y/IMG_3609.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhfq22m95pserhl/IMG_3610.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7uydmvlrat2qli2/IMG_3611.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v5akam8546rnu0s/IMG_3612.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eh1t4rj92gl4s7c/IMG_3613.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/027c529jatllo9y/IMG_3614.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zgmv3xz0gf4qils/IMG_3615.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ysc788tlyl8224/IMG_3616.PNG?dl=0

[ACustomer]

There were some photos posted on another site in the past 3 days showing two DD coaches at Connolly en route for Inchicore. So it seems that IE are having to help resolve what is a very bad performance by NIR.

I don't thing that Inchicore figured in the original plan. Maybe they should have!

[Mark Gleeson]

Members section has more details as to the goings on

Inchicore did not feature in the plan, but was tabled 4 months ago to Translink

The dinning car is the unknown, as its getting seats fitted. Clearly the seats haven't arrived. The interior thankfully looks better than the photo mock ups we were shown nearly a year ago

[Jamie2k9]

Mark

There is one Dinning Car fitted with 22000 seating (purple of course). Its in same config as First (2:1) layout.

Planned or penny pinching??

Another thing I noticed is Open/Close door buttons are yellow, have not learned from when they decided orange on 22s. Will it be raised as its a stupid mistake to make again. Not even bothered to write open or closed on them either.

No table lamps in First also, suprised.

Lots of photos below:
https://chrisplayfair.smugmug.com/Travel/2015-Photos/Ireland-September-2015/51701791_JN9gQZ/4386785372_8F8bb8d#!i=4386785372&k=8F8bb8d

[irishsaint]

The dinning car is the unknown, as its getting seats fitted. Clearly the seats haven't arrived. The interior thankfully looks better than the photo mock ups we were shown nearly a year ago

some pics of the finished dining car

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7e18d7qss31kzos/IMG_3638.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xs10abhrv3l3pn8/IMG_3639.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/od8x8ke2tsndpqd/IMG_3640.JPG?dl=0

[James Shields]

The remaining enterprise set has gone out of service. Where NIR have found spare C3K sets for the displacement, I can only guess.

Good to see progress is finally being made. I was beginning to wonder if the sets would all go out of service, and mysteriously never be heard of again.

James

[Mark Gleeson]

Been some significant service cuts in NI in a recent timetable change which helped. That said on some days its 3 cars only

[Inniskeen]

NIR timetable changes are actually relatively modest and mainly affect off peak services, principally on the Larne line. Little impact on set requirements.

[James Shields]

Any word on refurbished stock reentering service? I was on the 20:50 from Connolly last night, which was enterprise stock until a couple of weeks ago, but it's still NIR stock.

James

[Mark Gleeson]

No word

As far as I know it hasn't crossed the border and it will require RSC sign off before carrying passengers.

There is a staff training issue also for the driver MMI and on train computer. That said its basically the same as used on the Mk4 sets

The three coaches sent to Inchicore are still there

[irishsaint]

Any word on refurbished stock reentering service? I was on the 20:50 from Connolly last night, which was enterprise stock until a couple of weeks ago, but it's still NIR stock.

James

Every week I hear next week..... But I am told to expect the 08:00 from Belfast next week to be the first new Enterprise. Believe it when I see it! I would say we are very close to the first set coming back, but the other 2 are about 20 billion years behind... well, way behind anyway, being told March next year earliest we will see one of the other two back in action.

[James Shields]

Aren't there 4 sets?

[Inniskeen]

Yes, there are four seven-piece sets (eight-piece including generator van, excluding loco) although until the collapse of Malahide viaduct, the fleet was typically formed into three sets of eight vehicles (excluding loco).

Current traffic levels frequently exceed the capacity available in the seven+generator formation although it appears there are no plans to restore capacity to pre Malahide collapse levels.

[Thomas J Stamp]

there is a pic of 206 and the refurbished test train on a closed facebook page at bradbury place, so i guess something is happening.

[Thomas J Stamp]

refurbished train was/is in connolly today. going down well it seems.

[Mark Gleeson]

First visit to Dublin was today

Interior was not complete, still work needed in dining car.

Next Monday might be possible but who knows

[Jamie2k9]

Yes, there are four seven-piece sets (eight-piece including generator van, excluding loco) although until the collapse of Malahide viaduct, the fleet was typically formed into three sets of eight vehicles (excluding loco).

Current traffic levels frequently exceed the capacity available in the seven+generator formation although it appears there are no plans to restore capacity to pre Malahide collapse levels.

You are not suggesting a relation to both, I expect it was just timing the recession really started to bite at the same time hence the reduction in numbers.

I think platforms may become an issue if an eight was added, not overly sure about Connolly but suspect an eight coach would result in train off the platform EGV and/or loco and possibly blocking access to the next platform as well?

[EnterpriseUser]

I was on the 2115 t0 Dublin this evening: NIR confirmed the first DD set had travelled South as part of its safety certification and its appearance back in regular traffic is "imminent": the other two sets are far off. As far as I recall although four train sets were planned the Enterprise service was three trains to cover eight round trips each weekday which utilised the bulk of the fleet (24 out of 28 carriages in three train sets).

[Inniskeen]

There was asolutely a relationship between the collapse of Malahide viaduct and the drop in usage of the Enterprise service and northern line commter services generally. There were/are a host of other factors not least of which is service quality, journey time, frequency and reliabilty.

As for platform lengths at Connolly, No 4 would be more than adequate, although not too convenient for the holding pen.

[James Shields]

I was under the impression that the main reason for reducing enterprise to 7 cars was to reduce the failure rate on 201s under HEP, though other factors such as reduced passenger numbers came into play. If memory serves (and it so often doesn't), I seem to recall it was some time after the restoration of the Malahide viaduct that the 8th car from each set was removed.

There certainly was talk of the extra passenger car being restored with the addition of Mk3 generator vans, however that project ran late and I think the refurbishment started almost immediately after. The sets had been reduced to 6 cars before sets started to be replaced with IE/NIR trains, causing considerable overcrowding.

I expect there will be some disdain from Drogheda/Dundalk commuters when the extra train that runs ahead of the early morning Enterprise is removed.

James

[Mark Gleeson]

Original plan was 3 7 car sets and a spare.

The spare used to run as DVT+3 std on the 1840 Connolly-Drogheda/Dundalk in the early days.

HEP wise the problem with HEP was running the engine at 900rpm all the time, the actual load wasn't really at issue

[James Shields]

You can certainly hear the difference when an Enterprise was stopped. Before, there was a constant high-pitched roar the whole time. Now (and by "now" I mean when Enterprise stock is running), the loco quietens down to a gentle purr while it's idling.

James

[Mark Gleeson]

There are two HEP modes, standby and normal. In normal is 900RPM from the HEP alternator, in standby it uses the main traction alternator and runs at 700 rpm.

Either way its gone and the Mk3 gen van works perfectly. The train in fact accelerates faster now as it has about 300hp more to play with

[Inniskeen]

There are two HEP modes, standby and normal. In normal is 900RPM from the HEP alternator, in standby it uses the main traction alternator and runs at 700 rpm.

Either way its gone and the Mk3 gen van works perfectly. The train in fact accelerates faster now as it has about 300hp more to play with

At least some of the staff working the train see the Mk3 van as somewhat of an achillies heel. There is little doubt that it is an advance on Head End Power but not quiet perfect. It is also an impediment to reversing the 20% cut in standard class seating although the flip side of that is that it may force the operators into running more services on a timetabled rather than an ad-hoc basis.

[James Shields]

Is the generator van not able to provide power for 5 standard class cars?

James

[Mark Gleeson]

Gen van will power up to 10 coaches, platform lengths particularly in NI cause issues

[Inniskeen]

Where are the platform issues in NI ? Would have thought Connolly would be the biggest issue as a larger train on 2 would block 3.

[Mark Gleeson]

Lisburn for one

[Inniskeen]

Yes, Lisburn may be a bit short but then the DDs probably have grandfather rights given that the original eight coach formations stopped there for years.

[James Shields]

Is there some technical limitation that means the loco and gen van can't stop beyond the end of the platform? As long as the coach doors are all within the limits of the platform, there shouldn't be any passenger issue.

I see what you mean about long trains blocking access to Platform 3 in Connolly (from a quick look at Google maps), but I'm 99% sure that when we had 8-coach constructs, only the loco was past the "kink" in the track. Based on this, it looks like 8 passengers plus gen van plus loco should still be well short of the points.

Personally I'd much prefer greater frequency to longer trains, which could probably have been done at minimal cost when the Mk3s came off the IE network, but I don't hold a lot of hope of that happing in the foreseeable future.

James

[berneyarms]

Is there some technical limitation that means the loco and gen van can't stop beyond the end of the platform? As long as the coach doors are all within the limits of the platform, there shouldn't be any passenger issue.

I see what you mean about long trains blocking access to Platform 3 in Connolly (from a quick look at Google maps), but I'm 99% sure that when we had 8-coach constructs, only the loco was past the "kink" in the track. Based on this, it looks like 8 passengers plus gen van plus loco should still be well short of the points.

Personally I'd much prefer greater frequency to longer trains, which could probably have been done at minimal cost when the Mk3s came off the IE network, but I don't hold a lot of hope of that happing in the foreseeable future.

James

It would also depend upon where the signal is located.

[Mark Gleeson]

And they tend to put then on the platform ends

Also need to be aware of the possibility of running backwards, so you can't assume the loco will be at one end.

The Mk3 idea was kicked around a while back to get 3 sets and a spare made up from the Mk3 fleets, convert the DVT to first and add air con (strip it out of another coach), remove the generator and update to modern crash requirements (read expensive). Overhaul the rest with new doors and toilets per Chiltern in the UK

That would give you 6 sets total which is enough to sustain hourly service, the theory expanded to do 5 Mk3 sets and have one in Cork and Heuston spare (Which Connolly could borrow)

[dowlingm]

Now that the 22s have been doing Enterprise refurb runs, the excuses for not increasing frequency on the route using them just come down to cash. I would have converted the whole service to 22s but we're too far down the road for that now, sadly.

[Mark Gleeson]

There are 9 ICR sets cleared for NI if needed

The issue is not just cash, it means stealing them from other services...

[EnterpriseUser]

Unusual movement today: the 1900 ex Dublin was trapped in Belfast last night due to trouble in Lurgan (it was ever thus) last night. The 0735 ex Dublin(an additional 22000 set) was attached to the rear of the regular set which left some forty minutes late for Dublin at 1120 Connolly at 1345 (slight delay at Drogheda as an engineering team did some unspecified task). Train was packed including 31 in First. IE offered a full service so a credit to all concerned and good to see some effective contingency planning. We left from Platform 1 at Central presumably to facilitate the coupling of the two train sets. As we were boarding a GNR liveried steam train and carriages pulled into Platform 2 for a Halloween excursion service.

[Jamie2k9]

Was it 2 5 coaches together or did the 07.35 get worked by a 3 coach?

According to a poster on boards one set will return to service on the 9th (06.50) followed by another on 23rd (08.00) and final set should follow soon after and remaining coaches by end of January 2016 individually.

[Inniskeen]

The 0735 was a four car ICR and was appears to have been delayed significantly at both Newry and Portadown.

The return 1035 from Belfast did not leave until 1120 as a 9-piece with the rear 4 cars being locked off and detached at Drogheda. The train was 59 minutes late leaving Drogheda and was further delayed at Malahide while a DART limped onto the south-bound platform. There were no other trains in the vicinity of Malahide but yet it was found necessary to obstruct a service now running almost an hour late rather than run the DART to the empty northbound platform. Still such nonsense can always be attributed to Low Rail Adhesion if anybody bothers to ask !

[EnterpriseUser]

It was hard to see as all the passengers were corralled on the platform while the train sets were connected and the doors were tested. (I was at the very front to board the "A" carriage) I have to say I was both surprised and impressed as service resiliency has never been a feature of the Enterprise service. I was even more surprised that a full catering service was available (this crew are Dublin based). The 22000 set has worked well, operating three round trips a day with superior acceleration to the DD sets and while not as comfortable work well: if we ever achieved the nirvana of an hourly service a 22000 five carriage set in addition the the DD sets would be perfectly acceptable.

[Jamie2k9]

It was hard to see as all the passengers were corralled on the platform while the train sets were connected and the doors were tested. (I was at the very front to board the "A" carriage) I have to say I was both surprised and impressed as service resiliency has never been a feature of the Enterprise service. I was even more surprised that a full catering service was available (this crew are Dublin based). The 22000 set has worked well, operating three round trips a day with superior acceleration to the DD sets and while not as comfortable work well: if we ever achieved the nirvana of an hourly service a 22000 five carriage set in addition the the DD sets would be perfectly acceptable.

Crew probally got a hotel for the night, will be surprised if they were bused to Dublin.

[Inniskeen]

Yes the ICRs have worked well on the Belfast line and would be the obvious candidate to operate additional services. They do perform better than than the 201s on the De-Dietrichs in the same manner as they are operational superior to the 201s on the Cork Mk4s. Comfort wise they are certainly way better than Mk4s but inferior to the De-Dietrichs and the refurbished Mk3s used by UK operators.

[EnterpriseUser]

The crew did go to Dublin on Friday evening on the bus transfer passengers due to go to Dublin at 2115. The IE Enterprise service is only catered from Dublin so if the crew had stayed overnight in Belfast catering would have been very limited. What really impressed yesterday was how effectively IE/NIR managed the situation overnight.

[Jamie2k9]

IE shouldn't need to provide an 22 for extra services as NIR were able to come up with 4 sets? to cover the refurb. I'm sure if they tried hard they could keep one for Dublin and if needed have no stopping between Newry-Connolly. First class will not be enough of a reasons in my book as extra services would be worked outside of the peak services were demand will be next to nothing.

In theory it would be possible to increase usage of the current 3 sets to increase form 8-9 services per day but it would require big changes and while I think it would work well generally provided customer feed back agreed.

Belfast - 06.00/07.15/09/15/11.30/13.00/14.30/17.00/19.15/21.00
Dublin - 06.30/08.45/10.00/11.45/14.15/16.45/18.15/19.45/21.30

Based on block time of 2h15, many scheduled for 2h10 or less now with an average of 30 minute turnaround similar to now.

Would give early arrival at either end and better evening options out of Dublin.

Only issue maintenance as the same set would be in Dublin all the time however depending on how much servicing they receive you could really cut Saturday to 8 and work Sunday around a set swap.

[berneyarms]

IE shouldn't need to provide an 22 for extra services as NIR were able to come up with 4 sets? to cover the refurb. I'm sure if they tried hard they could keep one for Dublin and if needed have no stopping between Newry-Connolly. First class will not be enough of a reasons in my book as extra services would be worked outside of the peak services were demand will be next to nothing.

In theory it would be possible to increase usage of the current 3 sets to increase form 8-9 services per day but it would require big changes and while I think it would work well generally provided customer feed back agreed.

Belfast - 06.00/07.15/09/15/11.30/13.00/14.30/17.00/19.15/21.00
Dublin - 06.30/08.45/10.00/11.45/14.15/16.45/18.15/19.45/21.30

Based on block time of 2h15, many scheduled for 2h10 or less now with an average of 30 minute turnaround similar to now.

Would give early arrival at either end and better evening options out of Dublin.

Only issue maintenance as the same set would be in Dublin all the time however depending on how much servicing they receive you could really cut Saturday to 8 and work Sunday around a set swap.

I suspect that it would be more likely to move to a fixed two hourly pattern using three sets, and then augment it with 3 22k sets to go hourly.

Bear in mind that with the proposed 10 minute DART frequency paths will need to be standardised going forward.

[Inniskeen]

DART already follows (for the most part) a fifteen minute interval schedule departing Connolly northbound at 09, 24, 39 and 54 which leaves potentially unobstructed fast paths northbound at 05, 20, 35 and 50. Despite this Irish Rail insist on scheduling Enterprise departures at 1100 and 1900 which means that if the DART is 3 or 4 minutes late it is leaving a mere two minutes ahead of the Belfast service. The 1100 and 1900 frequently take 38 to 45 minutes to reach Drogheda, a performance that barely matches the clapped out steam trains of the 1950s.

The ten minute interval DART service will ensure that all Enterprise services will have de-graded paths. Similarly all longer distance northern line and south eastern line commuters beyond Greystones can expect longer journey times. In addition the potential for delays and congestion will be significantly magnified to support a service expansion which the very limited and inflexible infrastructure will struggle to support.

[Jamie2k9]

First set back today and Im told the 11.00 has broken down or at least encounter issues.

Irish flag internally displayed.....not sure how wise that is!

[Mark Gleeson]

Its dragged itself out of Ballbriggan but looks like it won't get much further

Its past Mosney now, but ain't moving quickly at all

[Mark Gleeson]

Looks like it going to be cancelled at Drogheda and passengers on the 10:57 Pearse Dundalk which will run through to Belfast

47 minutes late at Drogheda so will be at least 1 hour late by Belfast if lucky

Refunds http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/refunds.php#their_fault

[Mark Gleeson]

Word is a traction motor fire and its 206 again which went puff earlier in the year.

Unclear if a train swap occurred or not, as you can isolate a traction motor and continue

Was well over an hour late out of Dundalk

[Mickey H]

arrived Belfast 88 minutes late. It was 208 not 206

[Jamie2k9]

Latest is a flat wheelset on 208, full set continued to Belfast.

[Mark Gleeson]

Broke down again this morning. C3K took over

[Commuter12345]

I have a question. Has the leg room between seats been reduced because of the new seats on the Enterprise? It seems like if two people of 5’10 or above are sitting opposite they are constantly moving their knees just not to be touching. There was never much space on these trains but for anyone over average height while even sitting up straight, this is downright uncomfortable.

And as for the new Wi-Fi. Oh dear.

[citizens7]

Does anyone else find the new seats on the refurbished Enterprise trains extremely uncomfortable ?

[Commuter12345]

Yes and the legroom is much less.

[Mark Gleeson]

Hate to point this out but they are the same seats, no change in spacing.

Just new seat covers.

[EnterpriseUser]

Mark: which train service is the refurbished Enterprise set operating. Is it 0800, 1405 ex Belfast and 1100 and 1650 ex Dublin? The timetables have not been changed. Many thanks.

[Commuter12345]

Hate to point this out but they are the same seats, no change in spacing.

Just new seat covers.

I assume you mean that the seat frames are the same but that there is new and additional back padding under the covers?

[Mark Gleeson]

Frames are the exact same, so no change in seat height, spacing, width or pitch. The headrest is different

The Enterprise seat were always a bit low

[Commuter12345]

Frames are the exact same, so no change in seat height, spacing, width or pitch. The headrest is different

The Enterprise seat were always a bit low
Yes you may be right once the foam settles down. The usual Friday Dublin 4:50 to Belfast so.
Gay Foreigners without seats taking pictures of other people standing?

[James Shields]

I haven't been the refurbished Enterprise set yet, but as far as I know the only new seating is in the restaurant car.

[Jamie2k9]

I haven't been the refurbished Enterprise set yet, but as far as I know the only new seating is in the restaurant car.

Wouldn't get to excited about it as it's only 22000 seating.

[ACustomer]

In view of the last few posts on old/recycled seating, please remind us again what the total cost of this exercise is?

[Inniskeen]

Replacing /recycling seats is incidental to this project and hardly the yardstick on which to judge it. The major issue with the seating configuration on these trains is the restricted leg-room in standard class dictated by seat density.

[berneyarms]

Mark: which train service is the refurbished Enterprise set operating. Is it 0800, 1405 ex Belfast and 1100 and 1650 ex Dublin? The timetables have not been changed. Many thanks.

Yes - that's the link that the set is currently operating.

[Mark Gleeson]

We have been promised a second set next Monday but skeptical but they need to have all 4 complete by December 31st

This will go on the 06:50 link so

0650, 1235, 1805
0935, 1520, 2050

[citizens7]

The uncomfortable seating is probably down to the new filling and lack of head support!

Any truth in the rumours about a new Enterprise timetable which aligns better with commuter working day ? :)

[berneyarms]

The uncomfortable seating is probably down to the new filling and lack of head support!

Any truth in the rumours about a new Enterprise timetable which aligns better with commuter working day ? :)

Draft timetables are now out for consultation:
http://www.irishrail.ie/news/public-consultation-for-2016-dart-and-connolly-intercity-and-commuter-services

[ACustomer]

The draft timetable may show more even departure intervals for the Enterprise, but the trains are mostly slower: nothing shorter than 2h 15m. The new early departure from Belfast takes 2h 26 mins.

What's driving this is the new 10-minute interval DART service, which seems to slow everything up. I know that this really needs a new thread, but the Rosslare times have really gone to hell, and the Bray-Howth darts are generally about 75 minutes (remember when they took just 60?).

So you have to wait about 5 minutes less for a DART, and then finds it takes maybe 5 to 10 minutes longer to make the journey. Brilliant! Only on Irish Rail.....

[pculbert]

I used the refurbished Enterprise train yesterday for the first time, sitting in the seats without a table. When I tried to pull the tray down to put a coffee on, I found it would not lower past my stomach! I accept I am slightly overweight but I have never had an issue on any other NI train nor indeed on the previous Enterprise trains. I had to use the tray on the adjoining seat. I have emailed Translink and am awaiting a response (I suggested some of their staff sit in these seats and try using the trays).

Has anyone else experienced similar?

[James Shields]

So are all the Enterprise sets back now?

I got the 8:20 from Drogheda to Connolly, which was served by an Enterprise set.

This morning the 8:18 relief was still running ahead of the Enterprise (about 20 mins late). Not sure if the Enterprise was using Enterprise stock.

James

[Inniskeen]

The relief left Drogheda this morning at 0840 with the 0650 from Belfast following at 0845. With so much padding in the schedules and despite three permanent way slacks, both trains had reached Connolly by 0917. The 29k on the relief required the attention of maintenance staff at Drogheda and caused the Belfast train to be held outside.

[Dublin13]

Over the past couple of weeks they have been holding DART services to allow commuter and enterprise trains through, which I know will please someone on here.

Recently the 16:58 from Clontarf to Malahide has been running at least 10 minutes late every day normally because of late running commuter and Enterprise services and tonight it was running almost 20 minutes late waiting for the Enterprise to go through.

The platform display at Clontarf showed 1 min for over 10 min, when the Enterprise did go through the Malahide train and the following Howth were literally in convoy.

[Inniskeen]

That DART was held for 5 minutes to allow the delayed 1650 to Belfast precede it at East Wall - this saved a further delay of 25 minutes to the Enterprise. This DART was 8 minutes late leaving Pearse and 13 minutes late at Portmarnock.

While the 1644 from Pearse to Drogheda is late most days due to congestion associated with the altered track layout at Pearse, it rarely affects the following DART as this is normally late before it gets to Pearse as was the case yesterday.

[Dublin13]

Oh that Dart is late all the time, no dispute about that, but I can tell you for certain that the time between the train showing due in 1 min on the display versus it actually arriving at Clontarf was 10 mins. At one point it vanished completely from the board.

My main gripe with it is because of it, is related to the timetable too, since it was almost impossible to board the DART to Malahide because of the sheer number of people due to even later than normal running.

Don't worry though, there was a Howth train right behind it that was probably empty, followed by another one that was probably empty as well, the service on the Malahide branch is a joke, trains are running late all of the time and overcrowded doesn't seem to effect the Howth branch nearly as much, but it just generates even worse overcrowding on the Malahide branch than there already is.

[Inniskeen]

I was on that DART and it was stopped north of Connolly for six seconds under five minutes. It was full with a fair number standing but nothing spectacular given the delay and the time of the evening. Station stops were relatively brief, approximately 30 seconds at each station from Clontarf Road to Portmarnock again indicating that the train wasn't overly taxed in terms of passengers.

The main problem with operations on this route is that the infrastructure is inadequate to support the timetable and too inflexible to allow quick recovery in the event of anything other than a very minor disturbance. Without additional tracks stations such as Clongriffin can only be properly served by downgrading existing services which is in effect what the proposed new timetable does. Huge stations have been built on the Kildare line with up to five platforms in addition to fast and slow lines. Patronage at these stations are negligible while Clongriffin, which is much busier, has been built with four platforms and only three tracks !

[Dublin13]

I was on that DART and it was stopped north of Connolly for six seconds under five minutes. It was full with a fair number standing but nothing spectacular given the delay and the time of the evening. Station stops were relatively brief, approximately 30 seconds at each station from Clontarf Road to Portmarnock again indicating that the train wasn't overly taxed in terms of passengers.

I don't know how long it was stopped North at Connolly, all I know is that between the time it said 1 min on the board the train was nowhere in sight and 10 minutes later it had only just arrived.

It depends on the carriages, some of them were lightly loaded alwright but I had to try three doors before I got in one. It was nothing like the 17:58 or the 18:42 however from Clontarf which are the two that are absolutely wedged on a regular basis all the wya through to Cllongriffin, no chance of getting on them. if you have a buggy for instance or some luggage.

[James Shields]

I noticed this morning the 7:30 is still being served by a 22K (it left Drogheda at 8:16 this morning, approx 9 mins late).

Weren't all four sets supposed to be back in service by the end of the year? Clearly at least 2 sets didn't make the deadline. What impact will have have on the project funding?

James

[berneyarms]

I noticed this morning the 7:30 is still being served by a 22K (it left Drogheda at 8:16 this morning, approx 9 mins late).

Weren't all four sets supposed to be back in service by the end of the year? Clearly at least 2 sets didn't make the deadline. What impact will have have on the project funding?

James

I think it was more the case that the money was spent before the end of the year, rather than all sets being back into service.

[Mickey H]

Refurbished enterprise set out of service until further notice. RSC have withdrawn authority for use after second door failure incident

[Mark Gleeson]

And quite right to do so, the high rate of failure in service suggests the train is not fit for public service

[James Shields]

Interesting. Are any refurbished sets currently in service.

Back around September I was predicting (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) that the Enterprise sets would all go out of service, and mysteriously never return, a bit like the 8200 DARTs...

[Mark Gleeson]

As the safety certificate has been revoked, banned from passenger service within the Republic of Ireland

[Dublin13]

Being kept pretty low key to save face, wouldn't have known about it if I hadn't read it here.

[Inniskeen]

I can think of another class of rolling stock which has featured in at least two major incidents in recent months. It will be interesting to see if the RSC take an equally firm line !

[Jamie2k9]

So its all sets or just the one with repeated door faults?

[Colm Moore]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-35292165

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/union-blames-train-company-for-delays-in-enterprise-revamp-1.2492908

[Mark Gleeson]

http://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-to-dublin-train-2544830-Jan2016/

[Padna]

Latest update on the Translink website (http://www.translink.co.uk/Services/Enterprise/enterprise-travel-updates/):

Enterprise Service Information, Wednesday 13th January

**Updated 1220 (13/1)

The Enterprise train will resume today with the 1405 from Belfast Central to Dublin Connolly....also the 1650 from Dublin Connolly to Belfast Central will operate as the Enterprise service (1St Plus is now available and each service will operate with full catering facilities).

[Mickey H]

Failed in depot this morning and did not do 1105/1400.

Separately all trains between Portadown and Belfast replaced by buses on 30/31 January. Cross border passengers bus to/from Newry

[Thomas J Stamp]

this is just amazingly incompetent at this stage. the premier service on the island, how are you.

[MP54]

Used the standard class for the first time this morning (9:10 ex-Dundalk), my only other time on the refurbished set having been in the buffet car. The general finish is good and the displays very clear, but the seats... the headrest seemed to me to be too "far back", if you could put it that way. It doesn't have the same amount of padding as the old ones did for supporting your head and, basically, I found it a bit uncomfortable. That said, there was plenty of support for the lower back. All-in-all it was a pleasant journey, and all carriages well filled. One final gripe: I really preferred the former dark green/yellow stripe/grey exterior, the present one is just nondescript. And the colour scheme on the driving cab end - what is it with this fixation on "swooshes" or whatever they are? It looks like a mobile stick of rock :D

[EnterpriseUser]

Anyone tried First or Enterprise Plus as I suppose we must now call it?

[MP54]

Yes, I did, 9.10 ex-Dlk. Thursday this week. Paid the supplement over my yearly as I just wanted a bit of relaxation. Every bit as good as it was, I must say, and comfort, service, coffee (I being an addict in that respect) as good as ever. Well done, Enterprise people, love yiz❤. Puleeaze get the remaining sets back in commission a.s.a.p.

[Mark Gleeson]

Second set is back in service as of Friday.

It remains to be seen if Irish Rail is going to live up to Translinks standards when the third set is returned. Translink staff always show up in Enterprise uniform with name badge, Irish Rail staff if you can find one don't bother

[Inniskeen]

Based on prior Irish Rail performance, the answer to your question is obvious !

[Jamie2k9]

It's remarkable when you see something so small as a uniform becomes such an issue.

At times I struggle to see which is worse, unions or middle management. It is very simple wear the uniform or be given a P45 or continuing disciplinary action until a time comes when a P45 can be issued legally.

[Mickey H]

1235 ex Belfast failed at Newry today due to a door fault, eventually departed 80 minutes late which is the last translink reported on it. There is presumably a 29K on the 1520 which is allegedly on time

[Dublin13]

Again? Not the same unit?

[Jamie2k9]

Was the 06.50 on Friday morning operated by NIR stock?

1235 ex Belfast failed at Newry today due to a door fault, eventually departed 80 minutes late which is the last translink reported on it. There is presumably a 29K on the 1520 which is allegedly on time

Getting really pathetic at this stage, any idea it it was in motion issues or not closing when stooped?

[Inniskeen]

1235 ex Belfast experienced a door fault at Newry (wouldn't close). Passengers transferred to the ICR off the 1320 from Dublin which terminated at Newry. Arrival in Dublin further delayed due to slow moving traffic ahead.

Passengers off the 1320 from Dublin continued on "failed" de-dietrich and arrived in Belfast at 1611. The set departed as the 1605 to Dublin at 1624 and following further delays at Lisburn and between Malahide and Connolly arrived at 1847.

1520 to Belfast and 1805 from Belfast were worked by 8 x 29k.

[Mickey H]

0650/0935 on Friday was a single CAF unit which was then replaced by a DD set for the 1235

[Dublin13]

They really need to sort those doors out, the number of issues they had with them is crazy.

[Inniskeen]

The Friday substitution was pre-planned and as such necessarily an issue with the set.

[Jamie2k9]

So a pre planned alteration and reduced capacity. I am going to suggest the reduced capacity is because NIR are down a set after the recent accident. Did IE operate an additional as well from south or border?

The refurb is so far proving less reliable than before, constant entering and removing from service needs to be sorted. Have we even got a week with two units operating full services?

[Inniskeen]

So a pre planned alteration and reduced capacity. I am going to suggest the reduced capacity is because NIR are down a set after the recent accident. Did IE operate an additional as well from south or border?

The refurb is so far proving less reliable than before, constant entering and removing from service needs to be sorted. Have we even got a week with two units operating full services?

The second set is not much more than a week in service. The 0755 from Dundalk is still running which means the 0650 from Belfast has some spare seats when operated by a De-Dietrich set.

[James Shields]

The relief train has still been running ahead of the morning Enterprise. I know at least some days last week a DD set was following it. I'm hoping the relief train will continue.

James

[Mark Gleeson]

It is unclear how long this will remain, reliability is poor even the MK4 sets were better out of the box. Realistically there should be 1000 miles on the clock before going into service, the second set had about 100 from what I can see.

Long standing 29k passengers will have noticed the floor is starting to collapse on most units so there will be a need for a major engineering job to replace the floor structure and that means fewer units available

[Jamie2k9]

In the proposed timetable the 07.55 was to continue like now however that was with the Belfast departing at 07.30.

[Inniskeen]

The 0755 was to continue in the new timetable, stopping at Drogheda only, but taking evening longer than the current 69 minutes for a journey which should take at most 55 minutes.

[Mickey H]

DD set must have failed (again) in depot C3K on 0650/0935

[Inniskeen]

Loco issue perhaps as 228 heading north out of Connolly at 0910.

[Mark Gleeson]

York Road is meant to have a spare

And despite what some may say you DONT need the MMI hooked up to operate

[Mickey H]

Knowing York Road they probably broke the spare as well (They had 207 spare when I was last in Belfast on Friday)

[Jamie2k9]

And despite what some may say you DONT need the MMI hooked up to operate

What is the main purpose of the MMI if not critical to operation?

[Mark Gleeson]

Kind of handy to show the driver which door has opened when the train is moving, also shows parking brakes, which toilet is out of order etc.

The Mk4 basically has the same system from the same supplier.

[Eddie]

Had a day trip to Belfast on Friday, heading up on an Irish Rail set on the 7.35am and a refurbished Enterprise on the way back down at 1805.

Have to say, enjoyed the trip, much nicer than driving, even though it did feel like it took longer than it ought to.

For all the talk of slow longer distance trains on the Dart line in Dublin, there was no obvious delay around the Dublin commuter area. The Belfast commuter area was relatively slow from Porterdown to Belfast (apparently there were speed restrictions in place).

Really enjoyed the Enterprise, seems so spacious, and really nicely upholstered, and plenty of room for bags. The only thing missing was the reserved seating which wasn't put up. It was a fairly busy train and we were lucky our seats hadn't already been occupied. A more frequent traveller than me commented to the staff that it hadn't been up for the last 3 weeks. Not sure if it was the fact that we were late running and the software hadn't been downloaded, or it was something else.

Another great feature is that you can use your train ticket to go to the Titanic station and Great Victoria Street, which avoided having to buy any additional local tickets.

[Mickey H]

The failure series has resumed and not just the DD. Yesterday the 0735 ex Dublin failed and was replaced by a 29? The 1405 ex Belfast failed at Lisburn and was replaced by a C3K there is also one on 0650/0935 this morning

[EnterpriseUser]

yes it is disappointing. I was due to take the 1650 yesterday but fortunately managed to take a very busy 1520 DD set. I noticed the 3 car NIR set leaving Dundalk so breathed a sigh of relief that I had caught the earlier service. The consistent problem with the Enterprise is the lack of resilience. When there is a problem it all goes pear shaped very quickly. its hard to understand why Translink and IE have never sorted this!

[berneyarms]

yes it is disappointing. I was due to take the 1650 yesterday but fortunately managed to take a very busy 1520 DD set. I noticed the 3 car NIR set leaving Dundalk so breathed a sigh of relief that I had caught the earlier service. The consistent problem with the Enterprise is the lack of resilience. When there is a problem it all goes pear shaped very quickly. its hard to understand why Translink and IE have never sorted this!

With only three train sets in daily use, a failure tends to stick out far more on the Enterprise than on other services.

Failures at Heuston tend not to stick out as much as they're likely to result in ICR sets being "stepped up", in other words moved up from other services until a replacement set arrives from the depot or the issue resolved.

They don't tend to have that luxury with the Enterprise.

[ACustomer]

Berney arms: I take your point about Heuston being better able to redeploy units when there is a failure. What would be interesting would be to compare the failure rates of Mk4 versus DD sets, say failures per 100 scheduled departures. They are after all performing much the same function, even though the journey performed by a Mk4 is about 50% longer than that of a DD.

[Jamie2k9]

Berney arms: I take your point about Heuston being better able to redeploy units when there is a failure. What would be interesting would be to compare the failure rates of Mk4 versus DD sets, say failures per 100 scheduled departures. They are after all performing much the same function, even though the journey performed by a Mk4 is about 50% longer than that of a DD.

Mark4 would defiantly outperform DD in failure rates. There has not really been that many failures lately however of the ones I have observed it has been loco issues which is not the problem on Belfast route.

Another difference is issues with Mark4 can often be fixed without removing it form service something which the DD cannot. Now the extra sets of course help in such events.

With the third set been delayed not back (due in Feb) it would be about time that it spend 4-6 weeks running empty up and down to Dublin and all the current issues addressed before it comes back. After all fleets entering service down here had to run around 10,000 km/h before a single passenger could board and be fault free.

Yesterday the 0735 ex Dublin failed and was replaced by a 29?

To be fair you could probably count on a single hand how many times the 22's have not been available because of faults to carry out the scheduled to Belfast since they took over.

[ACustomer]

Jamie2k9: I would expect very little difference in loco-failure rates as between DD and Mark4 sets, at least since the DD locos are not having to use HEP, so they are all from the same stable as it were. Differences should really be down to the coaching stock, including the DVTs.

[Jamie2k9]

Jamie2k9: I would expect very little difference in loco-failure rates as between DD and Mark4 sets, at least since the DD locos are not having to use HEP, so they are all from the same stable as it were. Differences should really be down to the coaching stock, including the DVTs.

Yes neither would I but I am saying all the current issues with the DD have had little if no issues with the locomotives. If you were to compare both sets the bulk of the recent Mark4 issues have been locomotive faults and if a comparison was carried out the DD would fail miserably in comparison.

Is the fault board still giving all the trouble and/or one set over the other?

[Commuter12345]

Does anyone know why the overhead furniture is all rattling now? In the front end of some carriages even the windows are vibrating. I'm not an engineer but the 4 50 from Connelly feels like the suspension is about to fail.

[Colm Moore]

Does anyone know why the overhead furniture is all rattling now? In the front end of some carriages even the windows are vibrating. I'm not an engineer but the 4 50 from Connelly feels like the suspension is about to fail.

Can you do a complaint?

[RPI]

On the refurbished Enterprise for the first time and there seems to be some accessibility and language act issues.

The accessibility issues concern the toilets. Firstly, none of the door buttons are illuminated in any manner. You would think there was no electrical power available by the look of them.

Secondly, there is no internal feedback mechanism to indicate that the doors are locked or to warn a user that the lock hasn't been activated. This includes any audible signal.

The new passenger display system only appears to operate in English. There is no Irish content whatsoever. Meanwhile, the digital clock display has been replaced by a clock face which is pretty difficult to see at distance.

The signage in general is very hit and miss - certain doors have English evacuation instructions while others have Irish ones. Some buttons have English text above Irish and others vice-versa.

Who do I inform? It isn't strictly a complaint about the journey but about my concerns that certain legal requirements aren't being met.

[RPI]

Does anyone know why the overhead furniture is all rattling now?

I noticed this on my journey today. It seemed to be coming from the overhead luggage shelf.

[berneyarms]

On the refurbished Enterprise for the first time and there seems to be some accessibility and language act issues.

The accessibility issues concern the toilets. Firstly, none of the door buttons are illuminated in any manner. You would think there was no electrical power available by the look of them.

Secondly, there is no internal feedback mechanism to indicate that the doors are locked or to warn a user that the lock hasn't been activated. This includes any audible signal.

The new passenger display system only appears to operate in English. There is no Irish content whatsoever. Meanwhile, the digital clock display has been replaced by a clock face which is pretty difficult to see at distance.

The signage in general is very hit and miss - certain doors have English evacuation instructions while others have Irish ones. Some buttons have English text above Irish and others vice-versa.

Who do I inform? It isn't strictly a complaint about the journey but about my concerns that certain legal requirements aren't being met.

Well I suspect that as a jointly operated international service, the Enterprise is exempt from the provisions of the Official Languages Act.

[Jamie2k9]

Secondly, there is no internal feedback mechanism to indicate that the doors are locked or to warn a user that the lock hasn't been activated. This includes any audible signal.

How is this an issue, what do other units have in IE stating the same thing.

Do the buttons not have lights.

The signage in general is very hit and miss - certain doors have English evacuation instructions while others have Irish ones. Some buttons have English text above Irish and others vice-versa.

Not traveled yet but take a look next time and if the rest of IE's fleet is anything to go by it will be one door English, one door opposite Irish and alternative through the train.

Who do I inform? It isn't strictly a complaint about the journey but about my concerns that certain legal requirements aren't being met.

All legal requirements are been meet, most of what you mention is "choice"

[Mickey H]

Even numbered coaches are owned by translink and odd by IR. Are the notices with Irish first all odd numbered coaches?

[RPI]

How is this an issue, what do other units have in IE stating the same thing.

Do the buttons not have lights.

The problem is that the buttons don't have any form of lighting and there is no audible warning that the toilet door has been left unlocked. You don't have any signal as to whether you have locked the toilet door or not.

[Mickey H]

Here we go again single C3K on 0800/1100

[Mickey H]

1100 25 minutes late today due to train fault.

A DD set went to Dublin this morning so that IR crews can be trained for April 10

[Inniskeen]

It will be late every day from April 10th due to a timetable fault.

[Jamie2k9]

A DD set went to Dublin this morning so that IR crews can be trained for April 10

So it might finally happen!

It will be late every day from April 10th due to a timetable fault.

IE or NIR fault?

[Mark Gleeson]

It will be late every day from April 10th due to a timetable fault.

Timetable already considers the issue with the Dundalk train, its overtaken using the loop at Clongriffin

[Mickey H]

Single C3K on 1235+1520 today

[Inniskeen]

Timetable already considers the issue with the Dundalk train, its overtaken using the loop at Clongriffin

It didn't when I made the post !

[Mark Gleeson]

3 Enterprise sets have now entered revenue service. Set 3 entered service in recent days

Sets 1,3 are on Dublin Belfast, set 2 is now in Inchicore for training

April 10th timetable is going to happen

[Inniskeen]

It may be going to happen but it is somewhat of a work of fiction as much of what is scheduled is a nonsense. I imagine it is going ahead to save the embarassment of going to NIR and telling them that the whole thing is unnecessary !

The only change that needs to be made is to re-instate the 2005 from Belfast. Everything else is of no benefit to anybody and requires a series of further changes which have yet to dawn on Irish Rail.

[Inniskeen]

From the Irish Rail web site !
Belfast Enterprise schedule changes from 10th April. DART and other Connolly routes unchanged

30 March 2016

Planned changes to DART and other Connolly routes will not proceed.

Iarnród Éireann advises customers that planned changes to DART and other Connolly routes planned from 10th April will not proceed, with the exception of some minor changes to Belfast Enterprise services.

In summary:

DART services will continue to operate to their current schedule. Additional capacity will be provided at peak times in response to demand.
Maynooth / M3 Parkway, Sligo, Rosslare Europort and Drogheda/Dundalk Commuter (excluding departure times to Enterprise trains - see below) services will remain unchanged.
Belfast Enterprise services will see some minor changes from 10th April. Customers are advised to check times before travel.
Full information is available through the journey planner above and through our timetables section.

What does the word unchanged mean in "DART and other Connolly routes unchanged" - clearly not what is says as there are changes advised in the journey planner and others that will have to be made in short order !

[Mickey H]

Railcar on 1520 and 1810. DD seems to have failed in Dublin as no report of problem with 1235 ex Belfast

[Padna]

Currently on the 1805 southbound from Belfast and it's an Enterprise.

[Mickey H]

The (obviously false) information was from the translink train status page which has since been deleted

[Padna]

0645 southbound is stopped on the line just south of Portadown this morning. Due to a 'train fault' according to Translink's Twitter feed.

[Padna]

Believe there's also a problem with the 0735 northbound. Not good when neither of the early morning services will reach its destination on time!

[Inniskeen]

Second day in a row for the 0735 !

1850 Belfast every evening due to defective timetable, taking almost 70 minutes to reach Dundalk - a complete farce, it appears any old rubbish seems acceptable and IR will resist re-instating previous departure time or more logically moving departure to 1905 which would save about twenty minutes on the current insulting performance.

Surprise, Surprise, the 0645 from Belfast has not reached Dublin on time once so far this week despite reasonably punctual departures from Drogheda on Monday and Tuesday.

[James Shields]

7:35 arrived in Drogheda about 8:25. First time I've seen refurbished Enterprise stock on that train.

6:45 from Belfast arrived in Drogheda 15 mins late at 8:35, and got to Dublin at 9:15.

On an unrelated note, the Enterprise liveried locos have a fancy swoosh that lines up with the coach livery. I wonder how long they'll manage to keep the swooshes facing the right way?

James

[Mark Gleeson]

The locomotives will only work one way around as they only have the MMI socket on the Dublin end. Sure the train can move without MMI

By default the Enterprise locomotives have been the correct way around since the DD's arrived. If a loco is the wrong way around it will be turned at Belfast Great Victoria Street or unlikely but possible at Kilkenny or Limerick Junction

The cab in 206/7/8/9 is actually bigger on the Belfast end

[Mickey H]

Believe there's also a problem with the 0735 northbound. Not good when neither of the early morning services will reach its destination on time!

Don't know what happened today but yesterday 0735 was failed before departure and an ICR replaced it

[Mickey H]

0650 ex Belfast failed on arrival in Dublin this morning. 0800 ex Belfast formed 0935 departing 50 late

[ACustomer]

Does anyone know what the real problem is with the DD refurbishment?

The refurbished sets seem (according to reports on this site) to be failing practically every day. Is this just "teething" problems, or has the whole project been done incompetently?

I am inclined to think that there is deep incompetence at work: the project has been way over time, and Inchicore had to lend a hand with a few coaches.

I wonder if we will be told if it's over budget as well. In which case watch out for some other work, such as badly needed per way work, to be postponed in order to free up the funds.

Just wondering, but the whole thing looks a right mess.

[Thomas J Stamp]

well, they certainly haven't had the same run in time off service that was given to either the 22K or the Mark 4's (and if i am right the refurbished original DARTS) so this sort of thing will happen.

[Jamie2k9]

well, they certainly haven't had the same run in time off service that was given to either the 22K or the Mark 4's (and if i am right the refurbished original DARTS) so this sort of thing will happen.

That's by choice not requirement, so it's not a excuse they can even think about using as there was noting stopping them carrying out lots of test runs.

This is worse than HEP ops

[Thomas J Stamp]

thats my point.

it did take an extraordinary amount of time to get the Mark 3 gen vans done. dont forget there was an idea floating about (in fact an aim) to have hourly enterprises with a mixture of DD+mark3 gen vans and refurbished mark3 sets.

i guess it was just beyond them.

[James Shields]

i guess it was just beyond them.

Beyond their funding, anyway.

Is there funding available for hourly Enterprise? If there was, do the Mk3 sets still exist?

[Jamie2k9]

Beyond their funding, anyway.

Is there funding available for hourly Enterprise? If there was, do the Mk3 sets still exist?

No, but they could get a Mark IV

thats my point.

it did take an extraordinary amount of time to get the Mark 3 gen vans done.

Yeah sorry not sure what way I read it first, note that the first set is in service 5 months now, so really issues should be sorted or at least not one/two failures happening daily.

Don't know what happened today but yesterday 0735 was failed before departure and an ICR replaced it

Did they mange to get the last 5 coach run before it returning to Heuston after the charter to GVS on Tuesday.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Beyond their funding, anyway.

Is there funding available for hourly Enterprise? If there was, do the Mk3 sets still exist?

well, the funding was certainly as issue, but everything is split 50/50 on the enterprise with the UK Gov.

it still remains an aim, do the mark3's still exist is a good one, I cant remember if the ones that went off to Belmond were being kept for Enterprise (although I would guess that they would ahve needed to keep a lot more for Enterprise than that) but I do recall some statements to the effect that some were being retained for hourly Belfast services. Probably quietly abandoned.

our old friends at IRN report that there are a lot of Mark3's hanging about in 2012, but I seem to remember that they were all moved from places like north wall and Dundalk and can be now seen in the latest Hyundai i40 at a showroom near you

[James Shields]

I think the Belmond ones were all for a luxury sleeper train for railtours: http://www.irishrail.ie/news/belmond

[Mickey H]

The 0735 22K yesterday was a 4 car, 22037 did the special. Today's failure was a CAWS fault

[Inniskeen]

The 0735 22K yesterday was a 4 car, 22037 did the special. Today's failure was a CAWS fault

Probably the same CAWS fault as the previous day.

[Mickey H]

0645 and 0935 C3K today

[Inniskeen]

0645 sitting in Dundalk this morning for about ten minutes - really frustrating for passengers expected to get up earlier to suit Irish Rail's non existing 10 minute DART !

[berneyarms]

well, the funding was certainly as issue, but everything is split 50/50 on the enterprise with the UK Gov.

it still remains an aim, do the mark3's still exist is a good one, I cant remember if the ones that went off to Belmond were being kept for Enterprise (although I would guess that they would ahve needed to keep a lot more for Enterprise than that) but I do recall some statements to the effect that some were being retained for hourly Belfast services. Probably quietly abandoned.

our old friends at IRN report that there are a lot of Mark3's hanging about in 2012, but I seem to remember that they were all moved from places like north wall and Dundalk and can be now seen in the latest Hyundai i40 at a showroom near you

Apart from the Belmond rake and a coach being used for the weedsprayer train, there are no Mark 3 coaches left - they've all been scrapped.

The hourly enterprise could still happen - but it would need all the Mark 4 sets back in service and most of the 2700s as well to cascade ICRs across.

[Mark Gleeson]

Mk3's left

Inchicore
1 diner, 7408 I think
1 exec coach, 7161 (7162 might be there as well as I don't have eyes on the 'green' Mk3)
1 gen van for weedspray/infrastructure 7607

Dublin Port
1 std lying in Dublin Port owned by Belmond)

York Road
4 gen van on Enterprise



There aren't enough Mk4 sets to go around, there are 8 sets, allowing for 1 out of use thats just enough for hourly Dublin Cork, IE would need to provide 3 to allow for hourly Dublin Belfast and they are already at 5 in service on Dublin Cork on Fridays

[Inniskeen]

Seems a big shopping list given that Irish Rail should need to contribute no more than one ICR set. Even with the current extended journey times five sets should, in theory, be (just) sufficient to cover the basic hourly service, the fourth De-Dietrich being a spare. Depending on the actual timetable the ICR could have the advantage of providing some cover for the 0735 which IR so frequently fail to get away on time. So three DDs, one ICR, one NIR C3K or C4K with spare DD. Current journey times and punctuality probably will dictate a sixth set which would have the advantage of providing much needed step back cover throughout the day.

Something big needs to be done with this service unless it is to follow the Rosslare into relative obscurity and near irrelevance.

[James Shields]

6:45 Enterprise was late again at Drogheda. A 4-car 29K arrived for Dundalk and Drogheda passengers, so I've no idea when the Enterprise arrived.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Apart from the Belmond rake and a coach being used for the weedsprayer train, there are no Mark 3 coaches left - they've all been scrapped.

The hourly enterprise could still happen - but it would need all the Mark 4 sets back in service and most of the 2700s as well to cascade ICRs across.

yup, last night I was gazing at pics of carraiges being pulverised in a scrapyard in the north.

there aren't enough Mark4's for that to happen (although you have to wonder why they sent a mark4 on a gauging mission up to Belfast recently).

There is also the branding exercise - Mark4/DD are on the routes to Cork and Belfast for a reason, they are being marketed as superior services to the common railcar fleet. That's diluted by putting a lot of railcars on, for whatever reason.

If there is anything like long term planning going on, both types of carriages will be entering end of life within 10 years of each other, if they were all replaced at the same time using a common stock you would have a lot of flexibility. that's probably 20 years from now so lots of time to get ready for it.

[berneyarms]

yup, last night I was gazing at pics of carraiges being pulverised in a scrapyard in the north.

there aren't enough Mark4's for that to happen (although you have to wonder why they sent a mark4 on a gauging mission up to Belfast recently).

There is also the branding exercise - Mark4/DD are on the routes to Cork and Belfast for a reason, they are being marketed as superior services to the common railcar fleet. That's diluted by putting a lot of railcars on, for whatever reason.

If there is anything like long term planning going on, both types of carriages will be entering end of life within 10 years of each other, if they were all replaced at the same time using a common stock you would have a lot of flexibility. that's probably 20 years from now so lots of time to get ready for it.

Apologies the Mk 4s are needed in Heuston to cascade stock for the PPT service.

Reinstating some/all of the 2700s and then some rejigging of sets could release some ICRs - I'd imagine they'd want to use the 5 car sets to ensure consistency of service with Enterprise Plus being offered.

That is a lot of rejigging but given the lack of interest by IE in providing 1st Class on other routes apart from Tralee the five car sets would see better use on the Belfast route.

[Jamie2k9]

Reinstating some/all of the 2700s and then some rejigging of sets could release some ICRs - I'd imagine they'd want to use the 5 car sets to ensure consistency of service with Enterprise Plus being offered.

Consistency, really....there is no a single bit of consistency between both services.

That is a lot of rejigging but given the lack of interest by IE in providing 1st Class on other routes apart from Tralee the five car sets would see better use on the Belfast route.

Lack of interest, would think they are operating in the real world, there never has been strong demand for first class and never will be. Yes the product is not good however no matter how much you improve it, it will never be profitable as it just takes away standard seating on units and would required additional coaches i.e. restoring 5 coach units to 6 and so on.

And for what, maybe on a good day 6-10 people having a coach to themselves. Tralee does reasonably well when you compare to other routes however it's not spectacular by a long stretch. The same with Cork.

Time is money and IE would be better addressing such issues on the network.

This bravado that Belfast needs first class is complete rubbish, times have changed and I really don't think either company grasp that. Ask a single passenger what needs to change on the route:
Increase in service to hourly or just an increase?
Faster service?
Reliable service?
Would non first class stop you from using the service?

I think we know what the answers would be, with the service failing daily how on earth are the rich boy's coping with NIR stock, have they all switched to the cars, you know since first class is so critical to the route...

By all means provide on the real peak services but I'm sure even today off peak is not bursting at the scenes, so it's not so important.

It's like the whole Aer Lingus/Ryanair divide long ago, now they are more less the same!

Then who I am to tell the alleged experts running our railways who have made such wonderful decisions in the last few months, they would never be wrong :rolleyes:

[Inniskeen]

First class is important on the Belfast route, at this stage it is one of the few asoects of the service that attracts business. Even still two thirds occupancy is common enough although, frequency, competitive journey times and reliability seem to be beyond the incumbent operators. Part of the issue is that there is too little stock to consistently cover the adverised service. Three sets, no spares, day in, day out just does not work. Matters will improve when the 4th DD returns to traffic, although of course this will not improve one of the country's least dependable service, the 0735 to Belfast.

There is probably a case for the entire DD fleet to be based in Belfast and let IR kick off the service from the Dublin end with an ICR.

[Inniskeen]

6:45 Enterprise was late again at Drogheda. A 4-car 29K arrived for Dundalk and Drogheda passengers, so I've no idea when the Enterprise arrived.

It was on time at Dundalk, but delayed there by the relief service, left Drogheda about 0836 and arrived Dublin about 0909.

[Mark Gleeson]

As it was a C3K a relief was required, had a 6 car C3K been sent down then this would not have been needed

[Inniskeen]

Night have made more sense to send the 0645 first and skip Drogheda with the relief following.

[Jamie2k9]

First class is important on the Belfast route, at this stage it is one of the few asoects of the service that attracts business. Even still two thirds occupancy is common enough although, frequency, competitive journey times and reliability seem to be beyond the incumbent operators. Part of the issue is that there is too little stock to consistently cover the adverised service. Three sets, no spares, day in, day out just does not work. Matters will improve when the 4th DD returns to traffic, although of course this will not improve one of the country's least dependable service, the 0735 to Belfast.

There is probably a case for the entire DD fleet to be based in Belfast and let IR kick off the service from the Dublin end with an ICR.

It is and if 8 services a day have it an maybe 3 or 4 don't it will not impact on the service. People will not just stop using it because first class disappears.

The forth set will help but the performance of all 3 is not acceptable, before the refub prehaps it was but they really need to urgently address the problems as it's consistency getting worse as sets return to service.

[Mickey H]

0645 0930 1235 1520 single C3K today

[Mickey H]

1035 ex Belfast 19 late train fault

[Mickey H]

1400 ex Dublin 30 minutes late due to train fault at Connolly

[Thomas J Stamp]

Consistency, really....there is no a single bit of consistency between both services.



Lack of interest, would think they are operating in the real world, there never has been strong demand for first class and never will be. Yes the product is not good however no matter how much you improve it, it will never be profitable as it just takes away standard seating on units and would required additional coaches i.e. restoring 5 coach units to 6 and so on.

And for what, maybe on a good day 6-10 people having a coach to themselves. Tralee does reasonably well when you compare to other routes however it's not spectacular by a long stretch. The same with Cork.

Time is money and IE would be better addressing such issues on the network.

This bravado that Belfast needs first class is complete rubbish, times have changed and I really don't think either company grasp that. Ask a single passenger what needs to change on the route:
Increase in service to hourly or just an increase?
Faster service?
Reliable service?
Would non first class stop you from using the service?

I think we know what the answers would be, with the service failing daily how on earth are the rich boy's coping with NIR stock, have they all switched to the cars, you know since first class is so critical to the route...

By all means provide on the real peak services but I'm sure even today off peak is not bursting at the scenes, so it's not so important.

It's like the whole Aer Lingus/Ryanair divide long ago, now they are more less the same!

Then who I am to tell the alleged experts running our railways who have made such wonderful decisions in the last few months, they would never be wrong :rolleyes:

First Class on IE has been an odd fish for years on IE as there were various different versions of it depending on how the train you were on was fitted out. What I can say is that on the services I used it on it was always well used, if not full. This would range from the front half of the first carriage on the train to Limerick to the full executive car on the Cork train. That there is a demand for it cannot be denied, even if it amounts to a fairly lousy upgrade on ICR's these days. I read last week (cant remember where) that some operators are investing in making train travel less of being on a bus on rails and more of an experience, and indeed ryanair have gone down the same way including business class.

i would say form my own experience that the crash killed off a lot of Business class, which was mostly paid out of the passengers employers expenses, but at the same time the product was downgraded to make it not that attractive too.

on a different note, perhaps they could look at proper catering.

[James Howard]

The lack of proper catering is a bigger omission than first class - the offering on Sligo is terrible when you consider that is a journey that can take longer than three hours. But Irish Rail's attitude is that on-board amenities need to be a profit centre instead of something to attract business so we'll never see hot meals prepared on a Sligo train again.

That being said, maybe there could be a technological solution to the issue - if the catering crowd were to go in partnership with a couple of takeaways (or even somebody like JustEat) in Longford or Mullingar, it might be feasible to make an order from the trolley guy that could be passed on via an app and delivered to the train.

I used to travel first class on Sligo years ago when it was a nice comfortable upgrade with bigger seats and a carpet when there was none in standard. I think the key thing is the bigger seat and in this the 22K offering falls down badly. Personally, I'd feel ripped off if I paid for an upgrade on 22K. But I don't think there is much of a general appetite for paying enough of a premium to allow for lower passenger density that would make it worthwhile for Irish Rail on lines where it isn't there already.

[Jamie2k9]

on a different note, perhaps they could look at proper catering.

Totally agree, the current operators have/are getting progressively worse.

Network Catering were great and the food was fairly decent especially the hot food.

[berneyarms]

Totally agree, the current operators have/are getting progressively worse.

Network Catering were great and the food was fairly decent especially the hot food.

You have a very short memory.

There's a huge difference between Network Catering and Rail Gourmet. For a start one was a massive loss maker, not helped by disinterested staff who never made than one pass through the train with the trolley, and who frequently closed up the buffet long before they were supposed to.

I can recall boarding a Dublin bound train at Ballybrophy to find that the buffet had already closed.

Sure the restaurant cars were better under Network Catering with a good range of meals but that's about it.

The customer now gets a service throughout the journey with catering trolleys making repeated passes through the train.

[Jamie2k9]

I can recall boarding a Dublin bound train at Ballybrophy to find that the buffet had already closed.

Sure the restaurant cars were better under Network Catering with a good range of meals but that's about it.

The customer now gets a service throughout the journey with catering trolleys making repeated passes through the train.

On the Cork line Dinning Cart usually closes before Portlaoise so not much has changed on a lot of evening services....I expect during the day it's closer to Kildare and for most other routes.

Rail Gourmet, tell staff to do continuous service with the trolley however it actually annoys passengers being asked every 5 minutes for x, y, z.

Most of the established staff do a once or twice and on many services must move to the other side of the train. if they don't move I have never courted more than 3 runs.

There is no reason why quality of food can improve as with NC it was good quality and low price and we have the opposite today and the offering continues to be poor, even on the trolley.

[berneyarms]

On the Cork line Dinning Cart usually closes before Portlaoise so not much has changed on a lot of evening services....I expect during the day it's closer to Kildare and for most other routes.

Rail Gourmet, tell staff to do continuous service with the trolley however it actually annoys passengers being asked every 5 minutes for x, y, z.

Most of the established staff do a once or twice and on many services must move to the other side of the train. if they don't move I have never courted more than 3 runs.

There is no reason why quality of food can improve as with NC it was good quality and low price and we have the opposite today and the offering continues to be poor, even on the trolley.

Buffet counters are (more often than not) open until Kildare these days on the Cork line and certainly not Portlaoise.

I think most people would prefer the trolley to do several runs rather than just one as it was before. Once again you're taking the hyperbole route with "every 5 minutes". Let's not exaggerate here.

[Jamie2k9]

Buffet counters are (more often than not) open until Kildare these days on the Cork line and certainly not Portlaoise.

I think most people would prefer the trolley to do several runs rather than just one as it was before. Once again you're taking the hyperbole route with "every 5 minutes". Let's not exaggerate here.

Without going off topic to much, they really are no, it's not unusual for them to close 40-45 minutes before arrival. Once as it was before is not as clear as you say, the Cork route only has one run on the Mark IV and on busy service it could be Mallow before it runs through 7 coaches.

[Mickey H]

0735 ex Dublin 35 late mechanical fault before departure

[Mickey H]

Turns out the 0735 was replaced by a railcar, unknown what type. It is now the turn of the 1520 which is 30 late also due to a failure

[James Howard]

Well the 1905 to Sligo is a 29K so there's a good chance they borrowed a 4 car 22K unit for it.

How is still going on months after introduction? While it wasn't the most reliable service beforehand, it is quite an achievement to spend £12million fancying up the trains and end up with a worse service afterwards.

[Jamie2k9]

Well the 1905 to Sligo is a 29K so there's a good chance they borrowed a 4 car 22K unit for it.

How is still going on months after introduction? While it wasn't the most reliable service beforehand, it is quite an achievement to spend £12million fancying up the trains and end up with a worse service afterwards.

Probably because of a fault on the 16.00 to Sligo.

[James Howard]

Ah, I didn't see that. Probably likely due to red mist descending on realising I'd have to spend the guts of 2 hours on a 29K with my neighbour emptying a chicken stuffing sandwich into my laptop.

[Mickey H]

1405 ex Belfast C3K 72 late after DD failure

[Mickey H]

1650 ex Dublin 4 car IE train

[James Howard]

All they seemed to have been able to manage was a 4-car 29K. At least there will be plenty of space for everyone to stand. Why anybody would bother paying a premium for this pathetic attempt at a service is beyond me.

At least most of the fault with this is with translink but this seems to be an appalling waste of £12 million. If they don't these reliability problems sorted out soon, there will be nobody left using this service.

[Inniskeen]

1700 Cork gone wallop as well. Train failure of some sort at Connolly, signalling issues Pearse area. Not a good eveing at all.

[James Howard]

Going off-topic a bit but the 1715 to Longford just conked out at Ashtown. Lucky for me I managed to get the 1705 to Sligo.

[Mickey H]

0645 ex Belfast 6 coach C3K

[Jamie2k9]

18.50 yesterday also non enterprise

Today looks like 2 DD out of service with the second set going after the morning return trip:
06.45 ex Belfast
09.30 ex Connolly
12.35 ex Belfast
14.05 ex Belfast
15.20 ex Connolly
16.50 ex Connolly
18.05 ex Belfast
20.50 ex Connolly

That is 50% of services today non DD!

The problems are getting worse not better.

[D335]

Right, well the reliability of the Enterprise service has gone beyond a joke now really these carriages must be cursed after a £12 million refurbishment and overhaul they desperately needed they are failing even more than the days HEP.

The Enterprise clearly needs new trains of some type. I like the DD sets but they're slow unreliable and expensive to operate even a C3K is better at working the service, often arriving up to 10 minutes earlier than DD set would.

[Mickey H]

18.50 yesterday also non enterprise

Today looks like 2 DD out of service with the second set going after the morning return trip:
06.45 ex Belfast
09.30 ex Connolly
12.35 ex Belfast
14.05 ex Belfast
15.20 ex Connolly
16.50 ex Connolly
18.05 ex Belfast
20.50 ex Connolly

That is 50% of services today non DD!

The problems are getting worse not better.

All of those trains starting with 0645 C3K 6 coach today

[Jamie2k9]

All of those trains starting with 0645 C3K 6 coach today

The 14.05 and 16.50 workings would be part of set number two which would work:
08.00
11.20
14.05
16.50
20.05

[Inniskeen]

1405 & 1650 were De-Dietrich according to NIR. Loco swapped at Connolly on arrival of 0800 from Belfast.

While there are clearly issues with the De-Dietrichs, it is anything but clear what the problems are. The situation is exacerbated by the requirement for 100% availability, three sets are required every day, 7 days a week.

The worst performer appears to be the 0735 from Dublin, is this Irish Rail still re-learning ? Is it that problems are only discovered (or attended to) at the last minute ? Are there any maintenance staff available in Dublin to attend to issues overnight ? Would it be better to keep the whole DD fleet in Belfast and use an ICR for the Connolly based link ? This would potentially allow a much needed increase in frequency as well.

[Jamie2k9]

1405 & 1650 were De-Dietrich according to NIR.

My mistake however at 10.20 it wasn't planned however changed at 12.00.

[Mickey H]

I travelled on the IR operated 1605 as far as Portadown yesterday which was DD and operating properly.

Meanwhile 1105 ex Belfast today is C3K

[Jamie2k9]

Have they got it together, this week not been following but full service operated by DD since Sunday?

[Padna]

Tonight's 2050 northbound wasn't an Enterprise.

[Inniskeen]

Appears to have been an issue with 0930 from Dublin, 1235 & 1805 ex Belfast and 1520 and 2050 from Dublin were C3Ks.

Further delays affecting 1605 and 1805 due to signalling failures at GVS. 1805 was further delayed due to trespasser(s) at/near Newry.

The 1035 from Belfast, was heavily delayed by the 1232 from Malahide which departed Malahide 4 minutes ahead of it. Both trains averaged 20 mph from Malahide !

[Colm Moore]

What is the current situation with passenger bookings?

[Mickey H]

Here we go again:

1235 ex Belfast 1520 ex Dublin C3K due to another breakdown

[seamus kilcock]

Use the Bus - it's seriously more reliable.
Time difference - assuming train is on time - 10/20 minutes extra using Bus.

[James Howard]

I wonder if it would be worth somebody trying a first class bus or a first class section on the bus. I've was on something similar in Korea years ago.

My personal objection to taking buses for my commute is that there isn't enough room to work on a 15" laptop on a bus. If they had 3 seats across and a table, there would be enough room. Would it more be cost-effective than the train to run a bus at such density? I'm guessing you'd get the equivalent of 40 passengers on a tri-axle.

[Mickey H]

Two DDs failed today 1320+1605 were a 22K 1805+2050 are a C3K

[aWotW]

The Enterprise that left Newry for Dublin at 07:40 on Thurs 26 May 2016 was missing a standard class carriage.
It was announced on the train that this was due to a mechanical fault.

[MP54]

It actually happened twice last week on that same train. And again today. How wonderful to pay over €3,000 p.a. for the privilege of standing in a (crowded) gangway. It wouldn't be so bad if it was on the way home but on the way into work? Matthews' Bus from Dundalk is looking more and more inviting...:mad:

[aWotW]

On Thurs 9 June 2016 on the 07.40 from Newry
I was in a carriage where the window lights were on
but the electronic seat indicators, wifi and clock display were not working.

[Mark Gleeson]

Sounds like the MMI/computer is off, train works fine (i.e. exactly as it was before the refurbishment)

Its most likely a damaged cable as there is an industrial ethernet cable running the length of the train which hosts as the fancy stuff

[MP54]

08:00 ex-Dundalk: no coach G every day this week so far. Standing, of course, and very uncomfortable after Drogheda, with the extra people. Would have been even more so had the weather been hot. In a way, it reminded me of the "old" Enterprise back in the 70s - early 80s, particularly the 17:30 from Connolly, which was regularly packed and standing was the norm unless you got there early to join the head of the queue, which as I recall used to reach the door out to the old ramp.

[Inniskeen]

Same this morning, no doubt IrishRail haven't noticed or they would be running a relief ! Amazing they bother running a service out of Dundalk at all.

[Mickey H]

1035 and 1320 are a C3K today. The 0735 ex Dublin set failed in Belfast

[Mickey H]

1405 ex Belfast expired at Clongriffin today. I'm told it took until 1800 to get the train towed into Connolly

[Inniskeen]

Yes 1405 terminated at Clongriffin and blocked the line for a little over 1½ hours. DART service suspended between Clongriffin and Malahide.

1650 to Belfast and 2005 return was an ICR. The 1800 and 2050 to Belfast were 3 x C3K.

[Jamie2k9]

Is there not a loop at the station?

[berneyarms]

Is there not a loop at the station?

A northbound one - not southbound.

[Jamie2k9]

A northbound one - not southbound.

I see, so they built the station for 4 platforms but only have 3 available. The Southbound is a critical piece of infrastructure that really needs to be put into operation as soon as possible.

[Mickey H]

The 0735 has failed and there is a ?29K? replacing it

[James Shields]

Yes 1405 terminated at Clongriffin and blocked the line for a little over 1½ hours. DART service suspended between Clongriffin and Malahide.

Surely trains should be able to terminate in Clongriffin on platform 2, allowing both northbound and southbound trains to pass?

James

[Inniskeen]

Unfortunately Irish Rail missed the opportunity to create a really useful facility at Clongriffin which would have gone some considerable way towards allieviating the operational disaster that is Malahide.

It appears there are now plans to rip out some of the connections immediately north of Howth Junction and thus further reduce operational flexibilities. Admittedly had a proper layout been installed at Clongriffin in the first instance, the connections north of Howth Junction could have been removed without any loss of operational flexibility.