Packed 4-coach 22k this morning

[James Howard]

The 4 coach 22k has made an appearance on the 0545 from Sligo this morning. All seats gone in the rear coach at Enfield and seriously packed in from Maynooth. I guess this is the future but it makes for a significantly less comfortable journey in return for a 10% fare increase.

[Inniskeen]

Hard to justify 2 vehicles all the way from Sligo just for Maynooth passengers.

[James Howard]

The thing is I'm not just talking about Maynooth. There were people standing from Enfield which is almost an hour from Connolly on this train. If you have to do this 5 times a week, it gets old pretty quickly.

There is also the comfort factor for those of us coming from further out. I spend 3.5 hours per day on the train and have been doing so for 9 years with little prospect of any change in the near future given the dire state of the economy in the midlands. The only thing that makes it bearable is the comfort of having an empty seat beside you for a good chunk of the journey so that you can spread out a bit to make it easier to get a bit of work done. Yes, it's a bit of a first-world problem to be complaining about the lack of space but losing the space at the same time as a massive fare hike sticks in the craw just a bit.

It is perfectly justifiable to run 2 extra cars from Sligo give that this train fills a 2-hour hole in the Longford commuter timetable and so is the the train that several hundred people in Longford, Edgeworthstown, Mullingar, Enfield and Kilcock depend on for the ability to earn a livelihood. If Irish Rail can't afford the diesel they could consider stabling 2 or 3 extra cars in Longford overnight and hitching it up there.

[berneyarms]

As I said elsewhere, there is going to be an element of trial and error on this while the set reformation process is under way.

While you may get away with a 4 piece set on the next two departures, I'd suspect that this one will have to remain 2 x 3 piece.

[Inniskeen]

The thing is I'm not just talking about Maynooth. There were people standing from Enfield which is almost an hour from Connolly on this train. If you have to do this 5 times a week, it gets old pretty quickly.

There is also the comfort factor for those of us coming from further out. I spend 3.5 hours per day on the train and have been doing so for 9 years with little prospect of any change in the near future given the dire state of the economy in the midlands. The only thing that makes it bearable is the comfort of having an empty seat beside you for a good chunk of the journey so that you can spread out a bit to make it easier to get a bit of work done. Yes, it's a bit of a first-world problem to be complaining about the lack of space but losing the space at the same time as a massive fare hike sticks in the craw just a bit.

It is perfectly justifiable to run 2 extra cars from Sligo give that this train fills a 2-hour hole in the Longford commuter timetable and so is the the train that several hundred people in Longford, Edgeworthstown, Mullingar, Enfield and Kilcock depend on for the ability to earn a livelihood. If Irish Rail can't afford the diesel they could consider stabling 2 or 3 extra cars in Longford overnight and hitching it up there.

There is a lot of equipment tied up on the Sligo line - six car sets appear to be an overkill in many instance, while three car sets are inadequate. Having said that, standing for an hour is unacceptable. Perhaps the 0545 from Sligo should run non-stop from Mullingar with a following service from Enfield.

[James Howard]

Running a following stopping service doesn't really work as it would have to be at least 20 minutes behind and the 0545 gets you to town on time for 9AM. Adding another three cars in either Mullingar or Longford would work but the problem is that the two Longford-based drivers have left for the day running two earlier services and I guess you would have to have a driver in each set.

There is a lot of equipment tied up on the Sligo line primarily because there is a lot of traffic between Longford and Dublin but it is very strongly biased towards Dublin in the morning and away from Dublin in the afternoon.

But even services like the 15:05 to Sligo will run something like 70 - 80% full to Mullingar with a 6 car ICR. Cutting the capacity on the Sligo line is just stupid - all they are doing is driving business away. They will very quickly find themselves running 4 cars in place of 6 at the same occupancy level and while they will save something like 5-10% on running costs, they will find themselves losing 25-30% on income.

If they want to save money on the Sligo line, the way to go about it is to find ways of delivering more capacity to Longford without having it going to Sligo.

[berneyarms]

Running a following stopping service doesn't really work as it would have to be at least 20 minutes behind and the 0545 gets you to town on time for 9AM. Adding another three cars in either Mullingar or Longford would work but the problem is that the two Longford-based drivers have left for the day running two earlier services and I guess you would have to have a driver in each set.

There is a lot of equipment tied up on the Sligo line primarily because there is a lot of traffic between Longford and Dublin but it is very strongly biased towards Dublin in the morning and away from Dublin in the afternoon.

But even services like the 15:05 to Sligo will run something like 70 - 80% full to Mullingar with a 6 car ICR. Cutting the capacity on the Sligo line is just stupid - all they are doing is driving business away. They will very quickly find themselves running 4 cars in place of 6 at the same occupancy level and while they will save something like 5-10% on running costs, they will find themselves losing 25-30% on income.

If they want to save money on the Sligo line, the way to go about it is to find ways of delivering more capacity to Longford without having it going to Sligo.

As I said above, there's probably scope for the 05:45 to remain 6-car along with the 17:05 return, but I'd imagine that all the other Sligo services will become 4-car or remain 3-car.

Fridays may require reconfigurating beyond that to match with the increased demand.

[James Howard]

It's a lot quieter this week but it normally is quiet the week after a bank holiday. It will be interesting to see if traffic stabilises at a lower level.

On a related note, wasn't there an issue with a lack of sanding equipment that was preventing reformation of 22Ks into 4-car units? How did they ever get around that or did they just ignore it. The leaf-slip season seems to be a lot worse this year than it was last year but I guess it could just be something to do with the weather.

[Mark Gleeson]

The centre car on a 3 car has no sanding equipment, some 4 car should have 1 B1 car and so should be better in poor conditions, but not all

Its unknown if mods were made to create more B1 cars

[Inniskeen]

It's a lot quieter this week but it normally is quiet the week after a bank holiday. It will be interesting to see if traffic stabilises at a lower level.

On a related note, wasn't there an issue with a lack of sanding equipment that was preventing reformation of 22Ks into 4-car units? How did they ever get around that or did they just ignore it. The leaf-slip season seems to be a lot worse this year than it was last year but I guess it could just be something to do with the weather.

DART appears to be the main issue - severely impacting other services particularly on the northern line. Problem is greatly exacerbated by the half hourly Greystones service which means that delays in one direction are transferred to the other direction.

[Jamie2k9]

The centre car on a 3 car has no sanding equipment, some 4 car should have 1 B1 car and so should be better in poor conditions, but not all

Its unknown if mods were made to create more B1 cars

Do the RSC not require all services have B1 car?

[Mark Gleeson]

No, 3 car set don't have them

Outer cars always have sanding equipment

[joey]

0900 ex Sligo is a four car 22k set this morning

Very busy no room from Carrick / Longford onwards

I'd say they are tinkering, well hopefully as the config are not right at the moment.

[joey]

I am going to refrain from giving out as I get shot down by other folk here on this forum.

So much for getting an earlier train for a little confort to avoid the 29k later on

[joey]

No ticket inspection for the whole journey, normally they are rampant on the Sligo line at least once but almost every time checked twice.

[joey]

As I said elsewhere, there is going to be an element of trial and error on this while the set reformation process is under way.

While you may get away with a 4 piece set on the next two departures, I'd suspect that this one will have to remain 2 x 3 piece.

So the future is 4 car sets on the Sligo line?
Just mothball it sure....

I love it when it is claimed that there is a fantasy the numbers just arent there on the Sligo line.... Sarcasm.

I'd also love to know the numbers using for example, m3 parkway clonsilla to warrant a 3 car 22k set most commonly or a 4 car 29k set. If they can put two car dart on off peak why cant they get a two car sets from the west or cork - Middleton line for m3 parkway clonsilla

[berneyarms]

So the future is 4 car sets on the Sligo line?
Just mothball it sure....

I love it when it is claimed that there is a fantasy the numbers just arent there on the Sligo line.... Sarcasm.

I'd also love to know the numbers using for example, m3 parkway clonsilla to warrant a 3 car 22k set most commonly or a 4 car 29k set. If they can put two car dart on off peak why cant they get a two car sets from the west or cork - Middleton line for m3 parkway clonsilla

I'd imagine that the future for most routes is 4 piece trains with occasional longer trains at peak times.

Personally, I think that there are going to be too few 3 piece sets available going forward to get train sizes right.

As for moving sets from Cork or Limerick - where are you magically going to find these? Virtually all of those sets are already in daily use (except for necessary maintenance cover)?

The M3 situation arises due to a combination of set availability and maintenance schedules. Bear in mind that sets have to be maintained during the day as well as at night.

[berneyarms]

0900 ex Sligo is a four car 22k set this morning

Very busy no room from Carrick / Longford onwards

I'd say they are tinkering, well hopefully as the config are not right at the moment.

When you say "no room" - what exactly do you mean?

[joey]

No sitting room all seats taken, standing room only.

Plenty standing from Longford onwards to Dublin.

Im not giving out merely expressing a view. Thankfully I'd a seat as I started my journey in Sligo, but wouldnt have fancied paying an already extortianated fare to stand for an hour n three quarters

[berneyarms]

No sitting room all seats taken, standing room only.

Plenty standing from Longford onwards to Dublin.

Im not giving out merely expressing a view. Thankfully I'd a seat as I started my journey in Sligo, but wouldnt have fancied paying an already extortianated fare to stand for an hour n three quarters

I don't necessarily disagree - but I do wonder how this is going to be sorted out, given that there will only be 18 3 piece sets to go around.

[Jamie2k9]

It's 100% fact there will be to many 4 and not enough 3 piece sets. If Sligo can't manage it then other routes won't be able to at all.

I think they are going to have to come up with a 50/50 split in train sizes only realistic options to reduce costs (from current levels) but maintain a service.

[grainne whale]

I don't necessarily disagree - but I do wonder how this is going to be sorted out, given that there will only be 18 3 piece sets to go around. Oh for goodness sake - just go and sit on someone's knee :eek:

[maloner]

Childern & OAPs sitting on the floor in toilets.

I use the train for business & am back in the car this week - no seats from mullingar.

Midlands 103 are running a feature at 10am on it this morning.

Call in & voice your concerns.

Twitter hashtag #shorttrain

[James Howard]

What kind of numptys are Irish Rail? This train is usually packed to the rafters as a 6-car. As a daily commuter I avoid it as a matter of course between October and Christmas. But 4 cars for the 17:05 is taking the piss.

7 cars for the 0545 this morning is lovely and comfy now that they have managed to drive away enough customers. 6 was right for this train on a Monday, 4 is too short but 7 is definitely too long now.

[berneyarms]

From the outset I felt this cost cutting project would come back to haunt them, in terms of capacity.

Cost cutting is fine provided service delivery is not impacted. But when customers start to leave out of sheer frustration then "Houston we have a problem".

There are two diagrams in Connolly that simply cannot get away with anything short of a six piece set - the 0545 from Sligo and the 1705 return, and the commuter diagram on the Northern Line.

But as we've seen even the 09:00 from Sligo suffered from long distance standing last week. I don't think that any reasonable person would consider standing from Longford acceptable.

They need to monitor this very carefully as otherwise people are just going to walk away.

[berneyarms]

What kind of numptys are Irish Rail? This train is usually packed to the rafters as a 6-car. As a daily commuter I avoid it as a matter of course between October and Christmas. But 4 cars for the 17:05 is taking the piss.

7 cars for the 0545 this morning is lovely and comfy now that they have managed to drive away enough customers. 6 was right for this train on a Monday, 4 is too short but 7 is definitely too long now.

The number of three car sets available is fairly limited - so I'd not be giving out about it being a 7 piece - better to have too much room than too little!!

[JohnnyBoy]

Well, after using I.E.'s 'services' for over ten years the current moves have finally pushed me out. It is now quicker for me to drive as to get the train (probably to be expected but when I take into account journey times to and from stations it works out about 50% longer to take the train). It's now a lot more comfortable to drive (might sound like another 'to be expected' but I.E. themselves market train travel's comfort and now that they're putting woefully inadequate trains on at peak times any comfort is GONE). It's now as cheap for me the drive as get the train and that represents an EPIC fail in public transport policy. It would seem that IE are dependant on extortionate parking charges in the city to keep people on trains. Ah well, at least it won't be my problem much longer.

[James Howard]

I am not surprised that people are turning away from the train service given the massive increase in cost and the reduction in service quality. So much for Irish Rails supposed new-found customer focus.

I am hoping that the present situation is temporarily especially bad just because there are a number of sets out of service due to being reconfigured. However, Irish Rail have dealt with this situation in a typical cack-handed way. I really think they should have held onto a few 6-car units - the Sligo line could definitely do with one for running the 0545 up train and the 1705 down train although it may be difficult to find gainful employment for the set during the day. It is obvious that there are going to be far too few 3-car sets.

The 1705 on a Friday should always be a 7-car formation but this is going to be difficult given how sparse the 3-car units are. The 1705 is busy enough on most days to warrant 6 cars. From what I understand, 8-car formations are not possible on the Sligo line, yet given that Irish Rail have so many 4-car sets, this is the only easy way to provide extra capacity on a Friday.

[Jamie2k9]

Appears 17.05 is back to a 6 piece, while the 16.00 has dropped to 4.

[James Howard]

But that can only be a temporary solution given that 6-pieces are supposed to be going. This is utter madness. The 0545 is packed again this morning - a few standing from Mullingar, nobody from Enfield onwards with seats.

A friend was on the 1505 down train last Thursday after managing to get out from work early. It was a 3 car train and he stood all the way to Edgeworthstown.

These are people who get the train every day and who use the commute time to get some work done or to relax a bit on the the way to work. How can this possibly be positive Irish Rail's finances? With the fare increase, it is now getting marginal as to the difference in running cost for a cheap car if you have free parking in the city centre.

Would it be madness to suggest that this is deliberate in order to drive down the viability of the railway and so when the calls come to start shutting stuff down, people won't mind so much?

[lambo77]

As a mullingar commuter I have no intention of paying nearly 1600 Euro a year net for my annual ticket to stand for 1.5 hours in both directions. Irish rail obviously don't have any mensa members! Cutting Capacity on peak services that were already busy is ridiculus

[berneyarms]

But that can only be a temporary solution given that 6-pieces are supposed to be going. This is utter madness. The 0545 is packed again this morning - a few standing from Mullingar, nobody from Enfield onwards with seats.

A friend was on the 1505 down train last Thursday after managing to get out from work early. It was a 3 car train and he stood all the way to Edgeworthstown.

These are people who get the train every day and who use the commute time to get some work done or to relax a bit on the the way to work. How can this possibly be positive Irish Rail's finances? With the fare increase, it is now getting marginal as to the difference in running cost for a cheap car if you have free parking in the city centre.

Would it be madness to suggest that this is deliberate in order to drive down the viability of the railway and so when the calls come to start shutting stuff down, people won't mind so much?

It should be perfectly possible to retain either 6pce or 7pce operation on the 05:45 from Sligo and 17:05 return with the stock available - while the sets are being reformed there may be an issue.

What was the 05:45 formed of this morning?

The 15:05 has always been a 3-car train, except on Fridays when it was extended to a 6 piece. So nothing has changed about that.

[ThomasJ]

According to boards.ie the 5.40 Longford pearse is leaving people on the maynooth line behind due to being unable to board. That is a 4 coach 22k set.

Worrying to say the least!

[Jamie2k9]

IMO IE management should do the following with the fleet.

37 3 piece
15 4 piece
10 6 piece

All the high capacity 6 piece sets dropped into sets of 4. This way they would get savings, not quiet as much but savings all the same. There is no other way IE will reduce costs and keep customers at the same time.

[Inniskeen]

I would imagine that a four-car 22k formed 0540 is more than adequate for traffic between Longford and at least Maynooth. Would it not be better to run this train non-stop from Maynooth (or Clonsilla) to Connolly and recast other services accordingly to accommodate intermediate traffic ?

[James Howard]

That would be an excellent solution for both of the early Longford services - just run a stopping train immediately behind them. It is crazy running stopping commuter trains from as far Longford especially when one of them is an ICR which makes getting on and off extremely difficult. However, I would think that you would find that these services would end up very popular with Maynooth commuters as they would be about 15 minutes quicker than the other train on the line and so would end up jammed anyway.

Something is going to have to give with this on the Sligo line. The main issue is that probably 75% of the daily up traffic is on the first two trains and they really can't get away with running these as 4 cars without causing serious passenger discomfort.

They may have given up on 4 cars for the 0540 from Longford - the 1805 was 7 cars yesterday. So in effect, they have basically added an extra car to a train that was already fairly generously provisioned with 6 cars. This train was 4 cars on Monday and while crowded to Maynooth, wasn't that bad for most of the journey.

This whole thing has a whiff of new management coming in from England where crazy levels of peak-time overcrowding due to lack of capacity is completely the norm. In one week they have managed to turn the Sligo line into UK mode by putting the fares up 10% and cutting capacity so that everyone is crammed in like sardines.

[ThomasJ]

That would be an excellent solution for both of the early Longford services - just run a stopping train immediately behind them. It is crazy running stopping commuter trains from as far Longford especially when one of them is an ICR which makes getting on and off extremely difficult. However, I would think that you would find that these services would end up very popular with Maynooth commuters as they would be about 15 minutes quicker than the other train on the line and so would end up jammed anyway.

Something is going to have to give with this on the Sligo line. The main issue is that probably 75% of the daily up traffic is on the first two trains and they really can't get away with running these as 4 cars without causing serious passenger discomfort.

They may have given up on 4 cars for the 0540 from Longford - the 1805 was 7 cars yesterday. So in effect, they have basically added an extra car to a train that was already fairly generously provisioned with 6 cars. This train was 4 cars on Monday and while crowded to Maynooth, wasn't that bad for most of the journey.

This whole thing has a whiff of new management coming in from England where crazy levels of peak-time overcrowding due to lack of capacity is completely the norm. In one week they have managed to turn the Sligo line into UK mode by putting the fares up 10% and cutting capacity so that everyone is crammed in like sardines.

But from what people on boards.is were saying, people were unable to board the train at ashtown yesterday.

The 5.40 indeed was a 7-coach this morning.

Just to point out the 5.40 originally started in maynooth. If they had expected these problems maybe they shouldn't have extended it to Longford.

But seriously the 05.40 is a commuter service, maybe the 8-coach 29k needs a return!

[James Howard]

Part of the original justification for the massive 22k order was that no train journeys longer than one hour should be on commuter rolling stock. While Longford is technically a commuter run, it is a very long journey (2 hours 10 minutes to Pearse) to be making every day on noisy drafty commuter rolling stock where the tables are too small for more than one person in 4 to use a laptop. It is also an unacceptably long journey time for a run of around 75 miles.

If Irish Rail want to make efficiency savings on these runs, it would make a lot of sense to properly segregate Intercity, Regional and Local services on the Sligo line. The services have different rolling stock needs and it degrades the attractiveness of the Longford service to have the journey time extended in order to make something like 12 stops between Maynooth and the city. They could probably make massive fuel savings by cutting both early Longford trains to 4 cars and avoiding stops between Maynooth and the city.

Personally, I would switch back to an earlier train if it were a 22k and they could get the running time from Edgeworthstown down to 1'40 by making it express from Maynooth

[finnyus]

A 4-car was introduced on the Mallow - Tralee line this morning, operating the 06:45 Cork to Tralee service.

[lambo77]

4 car 29k this evening - the 6:05.pm to Longford. Packed to Kilkock

[James Howard]

Maybe tomorrow night they'll get something off the RPSI for the run. Not looking forward to going back to 29ks for 8 hours a week

[James Howard]

I hope this is going to settle down in a bit - it is just a complete fiasco at this stage. Back to a 4 car 29k yesterday for the 1805 which suits the opposite train a bit better but not much. This morning on the quietest day of the week for the service, the 0545 from Sligo is 2x3 car 22Ks.

I really can't handle going back to spending two hours a day on a 29K. Unfortunately right now, there is no decent evening train home. The 1705 is stupidly over-crowded, the 1805 and the 1815 are 29Ks and the 1905 is just too late to be getting home.

[Mark Gleeson]

I would imagine the 18:05 will become a 4 car set. Certainly would be some standing to Maynooth but it would be about right in size terms.

[James Howard]

A 4-car 22k is perfect for the 1805 but the problem is that the same train then needs to do either the 0540 or the 0615 from Longford the next morning. 6 is definitely too much and 3 would probably do the trick. This train was 3 cars until they stopped the 1817 and it didn't need making longer at that stage as the 1817 never had more than a few dozen passengers beyond Maynooth.

The sensible way to resolve this mess would be make one or both early trains from Longford express from Maynooth and then they could get away with 3 or 4 car ICRs for that train. That would make the entire operation positive for everyone. Perhaps the sensible time to have made these changes would have been over the summer when the traffic is a bit lighter anyway but I guess the guys in maintenance wanted to take holidays.

It is senseless clattering a lightly train 60 miles from Longford to Maynooth and then having it crush-loaded from Clonsilla into town making it uncomfortable and slow for everyone. They could even do away with having the 1715 going past Maynooth without really bothering very many people and run a 3+3 or 3+4 as the 1815 and run it back up in two halves in the morning.

[Jamie2k9]

On my first 4 car set this evening and there was a very noticeable difference in breaking. Not great at coming down from 80-100 to a stop, train pushing forward, slipping back. Driver definitely applying more breaking to stop it. Now it wasn't wheel slip before anybody says it was as I was on a 6 piece set earlier and not a problem. It could just of being it didn't have one of those B1 coaches.

[DundalkStudent]

All trains moved slowly yesterday evening. My dart to Pearse took an age between stops and all trains out of there were running late. Maybe there was a message out to all drivers to go slow in the windy weather.

[James Howard]

I thought that the trains appeared to be very slow approach Edgeworthstown from Longford which is on a descent when they are 4 car 22Ks. But it was only an impression - I didn't time it.

The formations seem to be stabilising a bit - we now seem to have 7 cars instead of 6 for the 0545 from Sligo. The 1805 to Longford was an 8 car! 29k on Tuesday which was about 10% loaded past Mullingar but still as uncomfortable as ever. Quite how this is saving them money is beyond me as running 8 cars of 29k flat out for long stretches can hardly be saving fuel over running 6 cars of 22k at a relatively normal pace.

[DundalkStudent]

There's some good info from Inishkeen on the up to date travel info thread on slow trains: looks like it's variations in driver training/capabilities to handle the adverse weather combined with varying levels of sanding equipment installed on the trains themselves.

[Mark Gleeson]

The equipment is not the issue here, staff training and experience is the real problem.

Modern trains, just slam the brake on and let the computer do its thing, some drivers get ridiculously over cautious and aggressively try to modulate the braking effort.

The biggest delay generator is actually the failure to depart on time, I can see what time the train arrived into the platform, routinely see trains leaving 1-2 minutes late for no reason

[DundalkStudent]

You see quite a lot of people running up to the train at the last second and pushing the button for doors to open. The 2nd or 3rd openings per stop can add delays. Plus sometimes if a driver sees you running or at a turnstile they'll try to wait for you.

I don't want to give out about the above as it's saved my bacon a few times. Especially in contrast to the Enterprise when they don't care who you are or where you're going, departure time is departure time.

I'm not saying the first way is right and the 2nd way is wrong but we're not the British or the Germans, obsessed with punctuality as a culture. And (especially the British) angry when people can just show up late and swan on with special treatment. I don't see this as a bad thing. The understanding and compassion displayed by us as a culture is a very positive feature that I hope we don't lose.

Still, I got sick of the potential stress of running between dart and train so now I take an earlier dart to give myself extra time and aim to be at train station 10 mins before in the morning (actual = 5 min). :)

[James Howard]

I frequently see drivers having a nice little chat with the station attendant (whatever they are called now) at Edgeworthstown blithely ignoring the timetable. I get a strong impression that a lot of delays are generated by staff not being bothered. When is the last time you've seen a driver run while changing ends of a train that has just arrived in late for its next run? Similarly, while it is charming, there is more than a hint of the "Are you right there Michael" about trains closing up, pulling off and then stopping to pick up a late passenger.

I think that this year it is particularly bad for some services and they have scored a spectacular own-goal by reconfiguring the rolling stock during peak leaf-slip season. Mercifully for me, the Sligo line has been relatively unaffected by delays largely thanks to the demise of the 1700 up-train.

[ACustomer]

Poor adhesion in the leaf-fall season is not just a matter of wheelslip on acceleration, it's also a matter of reduced braking effectiveness. While modern anti-slip devices can prevent skidding and wheelflats, if the rails are slippy, then stopping distances are longer, just as a wet runway degrades the stopping performance of the most sophisticated braking systems found on airliners.

You can't beat the laws of physics.

[Inniskeen]

But you can use decades of accumulated worldwide operating experience to mitigate the problem - usually involves a combination of electronics and onboard sand.

[Mark Gleeson]

Poor adhesion in the leaf-fall season is not just a matter of wheelslip on acceleration, it's also a matter of reduced braking effectiveness. While modern anti-slip devices can prevent skidding and wheelflats, if the rails are slippy, then stopping distances are longer, just as a wet runway degrades the stopping performance of the most sophisticated braking systems found on airliners.

You can't beat the laws of physics.

Folks in Belfast seem to have few problems

https://www.translink.co.uk/Latest-News/Leaf-predictor-tool-helps-keep-Translink-NI-Railways-services-on-track-for-best-Autumn-performance/

Failure to plan, planning to fail?

[huggy]

Agency staff in Newbridge and hueston counting passneger numbers yesterday, anuone know what initative is behind it

[berneyarms]

The annual public transport census count.

[Mark Gleeson]

Nothing to do with 4 car trains.

Census is staffed by DIT students normally on behalf of the NTA (well it was started by the DTO)

[Jamie2k9]

On the 6.05 ex Waterford and a 4 coach, not the brightest move considering 6 coaches are filled to the max every week. So minus over 120 seats should be fun. Remember they tried the move from a 6 to a 3 when the timetable started and didn't work out so well. I mean fine for a 4 coach is the other two are usually lightly loaded but it's a different story when they are full.

[James Howard]

Adding to the woes of the reversion to the totally unsuitable 29K for the 1805 to Longford is the fact that two days in a row I've sat in a car without proper heat. Dead engines in both cases.

At least I wore a jumper today.

[berneyarms]

Adding to the woes of the reversion to the totally unsuitable 29K for the 1805 to Longford is the fact that two days in a row I've sat in a car without proper heat. Dead engines in both cases.

At least I wore a jumper today.

And how many coaches did it have?

[James Howard]

That's the sheer stupidity of it - 8 coaches! About 3 people standing in my carriage to Maynooth but with seats available. After Maynooth about half full, after Mullingar less than 20% seats occupied.

I can't really see how this is saving them fuel or running costs. If a 22k isn't more efficient than a 29k on long runs, then they have made a right mess of designing them and they are running 8x29ks when 4x22 would do fine.

The real solution of capacity, comfort and efficiency on the Longford commuter service would be to limit the stops of the Longford trains to Maynooth, possibly Clonsilla and Drumcondra. I would happily trade that against the loss of the 1715 and they could provision the two early morning trains using a 3-4 22k formation for the 1805.

[berneyarms]

That's the sheer stupidity of it - 8 coaches! About 3 people standing in my carriage to Maynooth but with seats available. After Maynooth about half full, after Mullingar less than 20% seats occupied.

I can't really see how this is saving them fuel or running costs. If a 22k isn't more efficient than a 29k on long runs, then they have made a right mess of designing them and they are running 8x29ks when 4x22 would do fine.

The real solution of capacity, comfort and efficiency on the Longford commuter service would be to limit the stops of the Longford trains to Maynooth, possibly Clonsilla and Drumcondra. I would happily trade that against the loss of the 1715 and they could provision the two early morning trains using a 3-4 22k formation for the 1805.

Presumably they need the longer train in the morning hence the 8 x 29.

Look on the bright side - everyone should be getting a seat and the morning service should not be so crowded.

[AD11]

The Irish Rail business model seems to be charge more and supply less. :mad:

[joey]

Now here we go this morning again 0900 ex Sligo to Connolly 4 car 22k set

When booking online I selected my seat myself. A double seat forward facing (not a four seater with table). Upon selection I recall being shown a six car set three of which where "X" out - could not select seats in these carriages. So getting on board this morning I find that coach c is not the end coach and that my seat number is in the middle of the carriage at a four seater with table. Obviously screwed up as it's a four car set now not a three.

Let's see how busy we get

[joey]

Not as busy today as it was on a previous Friday, capacity was prob just right on this occasion.

[berneyarms]

Shows you how difficult it can be to predict loadings - what was so special about the previous Friday that you travelled on I wonder?

[James Howard]

It seemed particularly quiet on the 0545 this morning as well. Obviously nobody got on past Enfield as the previous train was late enough to pick up the passengers normally taking the express, but even before it was very lightly loaded.

Perhaps people are avoiding travelling Fridays after the overcrowding over the past few weeks.

[huggy]

4 Car set on a Friday evening to Galway :rolleyes: ,

Arrive train side at 5pm(ten minutes early) unable to board as packed to the rafters. Last into the creche :mad:

[Jamie2k9]

4 Car set on a Friday evening to Galway :rolleyes: ,

Arrive train side at 5pm(ten minutes early) unable to board as packed to the rafters. Last into the creche :mad:

5.10 Heuston-Athlone, extended to Westport on Friday? Very strange it was a 4 piece as it was upped to a 7 piece in previous weeks. The 15.00 to Cork failed and a replacement train was required at Portlaoise so it could of being because of that as the 5.25 to Limerick was delayed departing also.

[joey]

Here we go again on a Friday evening, 1700 ex Dublin to Sligo jammed.

Should this service not be upped to a 7 pr a 9 car set?

Learnt lesson from last time and got my seat but the car I'm in there is plenty standing the full length if it.

Could ease after Longford. But this is my argument, Longford commuters are using this express service rather than the 1715 which is a commuter... Is there any need for the latter service given that all seem to be on the 1700 - which could be extended if the 1715 was aborted at maynooth using a four car set

[berneyarms]

Here we go again on a Friday evening, 1700 ex Dublin to Sligo jammed.

Should this service not be upped to a 7 pr a 9 car set?

Learnt lesson from last time and got my seat but the car I'm in there is plenty standing the full length if it.

Could ease after Longford. But this is my argument, Longford commuters are using this express service rather than the 1715 which is a commuter... Is there any need for the latter service given that all seem to be on the 1700 - which could be extended if the 1715 was aborted at maynooth using a four car set

What length is it?

It tends to help everyone if you actually tell us!! ;-)

[joey]

Six set

[James Howard]

The 1715 is no use whatsoever to Longford commuters. It takes about 15 minutes longer and the 29k is not a suitable train for spending a 2 hour journey. The 1715 is usually an 8-car train and takes about 40 passengers west of Enfield.

Longford commuters (me being one of them) are perfectly entitled to take the faster service - we pay handsomely for the privilege of taking the train every day and contribute considerably more to Irish Rail's bottom line than people taking the busiest train of the week once a week.

I have now started avoiding the 1805 (and I'm not the only one) as I can't bear spending 10 hours a week on a 29k. I'm swapping between the 1705 and the 1905 although the latter is a pain as it is consistently 10 or 15 minutes late into Edgeworthstown.

I reckon 7 cars is the limit for 22Ks on Sligo. They might just squeeze 8 cars onto the platforms but it would be very close.

[berneyarms]

Six set

Thanks!

Nine piece sets cannot be accommodated on Sligo. Seven piece is the limit.

I imagine that the 15:05 has been strengthened to a seven piece due to the high student loading - hence this one is a six piece.

Lets be honest - that train is no shorter than it was anytime last year.

[Jamie2k9]

There is a pic on IE twitter of the train and it's very bad. Still not shorter than last year but numbers must be up. A 7 piece train won't sort the problem from the picture online. There will need to be a 3 or 4 peice Friday only service to sort it out so a departure at 16.45 or so will only solve it.

[James Howard]

A couple of other options

Push the 1715 back 10 minutes and make it express to Maynooth. This would make it attractive as a Longford service
Extend the 1805 to Sligo

The real problem is that whatever is done has to be slotted in immediately ahead of a Maynooth service so as not to get caught behind.

The crazy thing about the timetable is that there are trains to Sligo at 1505, 1600 and 1705 when the real rush is after 1700. I've never understood the need for the 1600 to Sligo - would it not make a bit more sense to run it to Longford and have the 1805 go all the way?

[Jamie2k9]

A couple of other options

Push the 1715 back 10 minutes and make it express to Maynooth. This would make it attractive as a Longford service
Extend the 1805 to Sligo

The real problem is that whatever is done has to be slotted in immediately ahead of a Maynooth service so as not to get caught behind.

The crazy thing about the timetable is that there are trains to Sligo at 1505, 1600 and 1705 when the real rush is after 1700. I've never understood the need for the 1600 to Sligo - would it not make a bit more sense to run it to Longford and have the 1805 go all the way?

According to Barry Kenny the 5.05 was 4 coaches and not 6 coaches which seems to explain the problem. A problem was cited for the reduction and it would be back to full capacity on Monday.

[James Howard]

Well that explains it then. Probably all the 22Ks were busy running to M3 Parkway so that they couldn't provide space on the busiest Sligo train of the week.

[ThomasJ]

According to Barry Kenny the 5.05 was 4 coaches and not 6 coaches which seems to explain the problem. A problem was cited for the reduction and it would be back to full capacity on Monday.

And according to the NTA cencus recently published, the 5.05 is the busiest service on the Longford/Sligo line.

[James Howard]

It doesn't quite take a census to figure that the 1705 is the busiest train. The 1705 is busy every day but on Friday it is always jammers. They could easily fill 9 cars for that train on a Friday if they were able to offer it so to try to do it with 4 is just absurd. I can generally get out of the office early on a Friday but I can't be bothered now as the 1705 is just too busy.

Pulling that kind of stunt just drives business away. This messing over the last few months has me seriously thinking about ways to get out of the commute which I've been doing for over 9 years now. It is quite obvious that Irish Rail don't give a damn about this customer who has contributed 30 grand to their bottom line over this time.

And since the re-configuration, the normal pattern for the 1705 is 7 coaches. I took it on Wednesday and it was standing-only to Enfield so even with 7 coaches, you would have people standing to Mullingar. So to cut that to 4 is craziness.

[berneyarms]

I find it difficult to believe that it was deliberately sent out as a four piece.

Maybe the three piece set that was to go with it failed?

[dowlingm]

I've never understood the need for the 1600 to Sligo - would it not make a bit more sense to run it to Longford and have the 1805 go all the way?I seem to recall some fairly sensible timetable change getting torpedoed by the reaction of "chained officials" in Longford. Can't simply assume that sensible wins out! Would have to look at effects on crew rosters too.

[James Howard]

It sounds as if it was a failure of the 3-piece as they have 7 cars scheduled for that service every evening I've been on it recently. But still, it would make sense to have some sort of contingency in place for that service on a Friday at least. There are long-term implications with this level of overcrowding.

People will generally put up with it once but if you end up standing to Longford twice, that would drive a lot of regular users to the bus.

I know that the loadings on the morning service I always take are a lot lower. Before the capacity changes, I would be sharing a bay of 4 seats from Mullingar with one or two other people. Now I end up sharing at Enfield sometimes or Kilcock most of the time. I had a bay to myself all the way one day last week.

[Jamie2k9]

It sounds as if it was a failure of the 3-piece as they have 7 cars scheduled for that service every evening I've been on it recently. But still, it would make sense to have some sort of contingency in place for that service on a Friday at least. There are long-term implications with this level of overcrowding.

People will generally put up with it once but if you end up standing to Longford twice, that would drive a lot of regular users to the bus.

I know that the loadings on the morning service I always take are a lot lower. Before the capacity changes, I would be sharing a bay of 4 seats from Mullingar with one or two other people. Now I end up sharing at Enfield sometimes or Kilcock most of the time. I had a bay to myself all the way one day last week.

Train failure or was it used as part of an earlier service...

18.05 from Waterford is still lumbered with a 4 piece, people standing from Kilkenny and to top tings off seats were reduced from 265 to 234 as it was a first class set and for the second week they didn't bother turning on the reservations until Thomastown this week, Kilkenny last week. I'm sure some of the passengers were happy to see the arrival of the guards at Carlow to remove some passengers who were standing causing problems to others.

They might as well do away with the catering trolly on services as its just a waste of money seen as it can only do a quick run through at the start of the journey.

4 piece trains are very misleading to passengers as half them don't have a clue the train size is reduced.

Just wait until the last few 6 piece sets disappear, then the problems will start.

[joey]

Thanks!

Nine piece sets cannot be accommodated on Sligo. Seven piece is the limit.

I imagine that the 15:05 has been strengthened to a seven piece due to the high student loading - hence this one is a six piece.

Lets be honest - that train is no shorter than it was anytime last year.

Yes a four coach set. Apologies this is the first chance I've had to report back.

[Jamie2k9]

07,50 from Waterford was standing room only from Kilkenny today, the 07.40 from Limerick called at Kildare to pick passengers who usually get the 07.50 but ease the problem. They also had a bus transfer for those standing from Athy.

Give that IE would of know well in advance that heavy loadings were expected they should of provided the capacity to match it.

[berneyarms]

07,50 from Waterford was standing room only from Kilkenny today, the 07.40 from Limerick called at Kildare to pick passengers who usually get the 07.50 but ease the problem.

Give that IE would of know well in advance that heavy loadings were expected they should of provided the capacity to match it.

Shouldn't this be in the Waterford line forum? ;)

[James Howard]

Same problem - different line. Perhaps the thread should be moved to general "Intercity and Regional"

[James Howard]

Perhaps something will come of this

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/overcrowding-prompts-more-safety-inspections-on-trains-1.1623701

[Mark Gleeson]

RSC routinely inspect trains regardless.

As there is no provision, contract clause or legal requirement concerning overcrowding it all means nothing.

Just remember it was the minister for transport who proposed and voted for the cut in subsidy

[James Howard]

I agree that safety issue is irrelevant and is generally used a proxy by most people for the real issue which is discomfort. My reason for posting the article is that nothing happens in this country without politicians getting involved. You can do all the complaining to Irish Rail and talking to Joe that you want but once the minister starts getting an earful in the Dáil bar, things change. As a matter of interest, is there an official Rail Users Ireland campaign this overcrowding issue or is it not a matter of concern?

But the madness is that is almost impossible for this cutback to actually save any money. They are talking about a proposed saving of around 3 million which is less than 2% of Irish Rail's annual budget. While I'm not counting passengers on my morning train, I would have to guess that it has to be down something like 20%. They successfully drove away a significant portion of the traffic in the couple of weeks of 4-car operation of this train so it is really comfortable now. There is absolutely no way they can have driven away less than 2% of the revenue on the Sligo line even allowing for the free passes.

The real issue for me and for other long-distance commuters (I can't claim to to speak for anybody else) is the level of discomfort in the return to 29k service for the 1805 to Longford. Most of the people I know (generally the lifers) that are commuting from Edgeworthstown are now avoiding this service. We are still taking trains but now we are taking seats on the 1705 or the 1905 that could be generating walk-up revenue.

The irony of it is that they haven't even reduced the service very much on the Sligo line. They have reduced the number of cars running the evening service to Sligo by 1 and the number to Longford by 2 but have switched from 22Ks to 29Ks. I don't know the technical details, but it seems likely that running 29Ks flat out on rural lines costs more than running 22Ks at a comfortable speed. They are also fighting a losing PR battle where people are blaming Irish Rail cutbacks for the overcrowding on the Friday 1705 which has actually increased but was always an extremely busy service.

We have people in the office who have been commuting by DART for years on taxsaver tickets going back to the car because of the overcrowding, we have others on the Northern line finding that their needs are better met by the bus - the fact is this change is losing them revenue.

[berneyarms]

I would imagine they are saving money running a 4pce 29k -v- a 6pce 22k to/from Longford. Bear in mind that the line speed is no more than the top speed of a 29k at any point.

I understand your frustration about the 29k, but I think we are pretty much at the point where service cuts are the next option. Personally I'd prefer to see the service maintained in some form rather than cut.

I would imagine that IE's financial forecasts built in a drop in passengers as a result of the fare increases, but which would be more than countered by the increased revenue from the increases themselves.

I think people need to become far more intelligent in terms of asking questions of the government parties - asking how they expect existing service levels to be maintained despite repeated PSO subsidy cuts, rather than asking about overcrowding. Asking the latter question allows the politicians to get away with the stock answer of "That's an operational matter for the railway company".

Really we (the public) have been shielded pretty much from the effects of the cuts in exchequer funding (other than fare increases). Only now are the austerity effects really beginning to bite in earnest.

[Jamie2k9]

Just remember it was the minister for transport who proposed and voted for the cut in subsidy

What are the chances of it being reversed to allow capacity be restored and to stop doing more harm which could severely damage IE a lot longer than 1 year.

I would imagine that IE's financial forecasts built in a drop in passengers as a result of the fare increases, but which would be more than countered by the increased revenue from the increases themselves.

They cannot possibly be able to forecast the loss of numbers across the network as a result of these changes. Without the capacity changes it will still of being very tricky to forecast this year given the very big increases on all public transport.

[James Howard]

They would have gotten money from fare increases whether or not the cut back the service levels. The problem this year was the double-whammy of service cutbacks and fare increases in the same week. Each on their own is a problem but it is utter lunacy to implement both in the same week - not least because they lose the ability to separate out the effects of both items. To me, there is no doubt that Irish Rail are doing themselves long-term harm with these cutbacks - they are talking about saving 1.5% of their annual budget and there is no way that they can have inflicted less damage to their revenue than this.

Also, we already have had service cuts on the Longford service - we lost two services per day each way last year although they were pretty useless services so it affected very few people. But what they have done this year is far worse as they have effectively made the prime-time evening commuter train unusable. If Irish Rail senior management had to spend 10 or 20 hours per week on a 29k, they would change their tune pretty quickly.

Personally I am faced with a choice now between two comfortable trains which are persistently 15 minutes late every day or one that is so uncomfortable that by the end of the week I just want to go to bed when I get home. I am lucky in that my employer is happy for me to operate on a leave early one day, late the next basis but I would still rather not be getting home after 9PM two evenings a week.

The worst thing about this is that when I started commuting 9 years ago, we had a Mark 2 at 1810 and it was timetabled 5 minutes faster than the current 1805 and had at least as good a punctuality record. It was also more comfortable than anything currently offered. And now after having sunk hundreds of millions into the railway we are back to the noise and discomfort of the 29k. It would have been better if they hadn't spent any of it.

[Jamie2k9]

Appears that all First Class sets are going to be 5 piece sets instead of 4.

http://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/2013Photos/December-2013/i-f7XLBm5

Should help a lot of problems.

[Mark Gleeson]

That I think was the original plan, not much use to the Sligo line as they won't send a first class set there

[Jamie2k9]

That I think was the original plan, not much use to the Sligo line as they won't send a first class set there

Nobody uses FC expect for Tralee, they will have to do away with it if they don't want to be running extra coaches. There has being the odd FC set on Sligo line but probably down to mistakes.

Having more 3 sets around was badly needed.

[berneyarms]

That I think was the original plan, not much use to the Sligo line as they won't send a first class set there

No, but it will mean that there will be more 3 piece sets available which may help with strengthening certain peak services.

[James Howard]

FC sets are worse than useless for the Sligo line as it they will only operate a trolley so you've just lost even more space from a car without any benefit. I guess you get another 50 or 60 seats over a non FC 4-car set. But I guess that at least they are showing some sense in retaining them in 5-car units as they take too much of a bite out of a 4-car set and there is no point in running them in 4+3 units given that half the train can't get to the buffet.

I think they could solve a lot of problems on Sligo by adding another 3-car unit onto it - particularly on a Friday. I was on the 1905 last Friday and it was manic - there were a few people still standing at Edgeworthstown. They could probably resolve a lot of difficulties by running a service to Longford at 2005 or even 2105 which would be of great benefit to commuters and would take some of the pressure off the earlier trains. Personally, I could live with it being a 29k as I would have had a few jars any time I would use it and so wouldn't mind.

Irish Rail seem to be of a mindset of treating the Friday rush towards Sligo as problem rather than an opportunity to make money. Any private operator faced with the same situation would be putting extra services on to try to grow demand further. Particularly with later services, they have the assets sitting idle in Dublin

[joey]

I agree
The 1905 is always jammed

[AD11]

I got a later train than usual in this morning from Mullingar (8.45) and it was a 4 carriage Sligo service. Very busy and definitely people standing part of the way, but that was probably due to the Christmas shopping brigade rather than regualr users and so I wouldnt be too concerned.

But - I noticed a lot of reserved seats in the carriage I was in and a thought suddenly struck me - is it possible to reserve a seat using my annual ticket? Does anyone know?

If a randomer buying a one off ticket can reserve a seat surely it would make sense that us long suffering annual pay through the nose ticket holders can also avail of the 'perk' of booking a seat.

[James Howard]

The second up-train is likely to be very busy all week with Christmas shopping. There would definitely be an argument swapping the extra cars for the early train onto it for the week as the early train was very quiet yesterday morning.

You used to be able to reserve a seat for 3 euro each way plus booking fee but I don't know if this is still possible. This is the same as the add-on fee for a booking.

It's a waste of time booking a seat as if you leave it until the last minute, the chances are it will be occupied by some Anto who will knife you or some old dear who will guilt you into giving it up.

The shouldn't be allowed offer seat reservations without staff on the train to manage the boarding process.

[AD11]

Weell I would say they shouldnt allow reserving of seats on any commuter based service at busy times of the year ie Christmas.

The casual train user with their shopping bags on seats has no regard for long suffering commuters.

[James Howard]

I don't think reservations should be stopped - the point of them is to be able to make sure you get a seat on a busy service. What's the point of reserving a seat on a quiet train?

But Irish Rail should have somebody managing boarding if they have reservations. Because reservations are relatively new to the Sligo line, a lot of people arriving early to get a seat, sit in the wrong place and then end up either having a fight or standing because somebody with a reservation turned up 5 minutes before departure.

Irish Rail should have to surrender the reservation fee if you don't get your booked seat and the entire ticket price if you have to stand. The current situation is that they refund the reservation fee only if you have to stand.

[Colm Moore]

But - I noticed a lot of reserved seats in the carriage I was in and a thought suddenly struck me - is it possible to reserve a seat using my annual ticket? Does anyone know?You can, but there is a €5 charge. Go online to book the ticket as usual. Select your train, de-select the adult ticket and at "Your Ticket Details" select "Reserve Seat Only".

Irish Rail should have to surrender the reservation fee if you don't get your booked seat and the entire ticket price if you have to stand. The current situation is that they refund the reservation fee only if you have to stand.Don't they give a full refund if you have a reservation and have to stand?

[AD11]

How do they know if you had to stand or not? :p Do you have to provide proof or can you just say someone was in my seat and I had to stand?

[James Howard]

I presume you would have to complain to a ticket collector if there was one but otherwise, they would have to take your word. Hardly worth the bother though.

I couldn't really see myself paying 5 euro (plus fee) to book a seat I must say. I can remember being able to get a first class upgrade for £3 each way back in the day and even then it was 50:50 if the ticket collector made it to you to collect the money by Edgeworthstown.

[James Howard]

On the 1805 for the first time in nearly a month having altered my schedule to avoid it and good God it is uncomfortable. There are a couple of people standing to Mullingar and every seat is occupied. So I get to spend 2 hours crammed into a seat with my leg jammed up against a scalding radiator.

So given that they have pretty much finished splitting the 22Ks, this is looking pretty permanent now. It's a real pain as there really is no good option for a down train in the evening. Hopefully the pilot combined point-to-point bus/rail tickets they are running to Mullingar will get extended as a bus would be a better option than this.

To cap it all, 29Ks seem to be made of some material that is impervious to a three mobile signal.

[AD11]

My train commute has become a nightmare experience too. Either I am standing (on the way home) or being stared at by a hundred people who are all jealous of the ones sitting.

I heard someone comment the other day that Irish Rail were on the radio saying that they have received very few complaints about overcrowding so for them there is no issue? So it's really time for people to let their voices / emails / letters be heard isnt it!!

[James Howard]

Well that's bull***t as several of the commuters on my train have complained as have I. How do you know when Barry Kenny is lying?

The 1805 is particularly overcrowded per se, it is just too uncomfortable a place to be for two hours. My journey is 1:35 but you have to arrive 20 - 25 minutes early if you want a table for your laptop.

It is especially galling when you pass a 22K that's doing a Maynooth run. Yeah, I know there are links and stuff that need to be made up but there has to be a better way.

[AD11]

I complained again by email this morning, all I've ever got back was the standard 'someone will look into it' email but no follow up after that. Same again today.

I've also put some comments up on twitter and facebook but no doubt they will be ignored.

Standard response on twitter to other complainants is that the trains are engineered to carry people standing so it's not a safety issue.

Time they learned humans are not designed for standing uncomfortably for long periods while being fleeced of thousands of euro per year.

[AD11]

I got a reply to my complaint about the current Connolly Mullingar situation from a Mr. Paul Slowey basically telling me the train is fine and it's shortened due to to cost cutting measures. He went on to say that while observers are monitoring the situation it is going to be like this for the forseeable future.

Seriously, is that all they have been saying to anyone else who complains. Like it or lump it in other words.

I tried to respond again but the email address he 'sent' from CustomerCare@IrishRail.ie has fatal errors apparently and is not recognised by the IR email system. How deliberately convenient.

[James Howard]

That's who I normally get responding to my complaints - rather good name for the Sligo line customer complaints guy I think. I sent the same complaint about 6 weeks ago and got basically the same response. Nobody at Irish Rail will even see a problem because nobody senior ever tries to spend 20 hours a week on a 29K. I've also spoken to three other people who commute from Edgeworthstown who claim to have complained about the 1805. There are plenty of people who have transferred over to using the 1705/1905 on alternate days.

The situation was far better when I started commuting 10 years ago when there was a lovely quiet comfortable Mark 2 leaving Connolly at 1810 that used to get to Edgeworthstown at 1935. Now after new rails, new signals, new level crossings and new trains, it takes 9 minutes longer and is far less comfortable. After all the millions pumped into the system, we have loads more trains but now cannot get home in reasonable comfort on the first train that leaves after office hours.

[berneyarms]

That's who I normally get responding to my complaints - rather good name for the Sligo line customer complaints guy I think. I sent the same complaint about 6 weeks ago and got basically the same response. Nobody at Irish Rail will even see a problem because nobody senior ever tries to spend 20 hours a week on a 29K. I've also spoken to three other people who commute from Edgeworthstown who claim to have complained about the 1805. There are plenty of people who have transferred over to using the 1705/1905 on alternate days.

The situation was far better when I started commuting 10 years ago when there was a lovely quiet comfortable Mark 2 leaving Connolly at 1810 that used to get to Edgeworthstown at 1935. Now after new rails, new signals, new level crossings and new trains, it takes 9 minutes longer and is far less comfortable. After all the millions pumped into the system, we have loads more trains but now cannot get home in reasonable comfort on the first train that leaves after office hours.

I'd just make the quick observation that anyone commuting from Dundalk to Dublin could spend exactly the same amount of time on 29k sets as anyone from Edgeworthstown, given that the Enterprise times don't really facilitate using that service, and only one of the four commuter trains out of Dundalk is 22k operated.

I've not read any complaints about the 29k per se from any of those passengers, so I have to say that I perceive your negative comments to represent a personal dislike of them, rather than one that is generally held.

Again as Mark has pointed out elsewhere, people need to be asking their TDs why they voted for the government subsidy to the CIE Group to be cut - that fundamentally is what is causing them to have to cut back on train sizes.

[berneyarms]

My train commute has become a nightmare experience too. Either I am standing (on the way home) or being stared at by a hundred people who are all jealous of the ones sitting.

I heard someone comment the other day that Irish Rail were on the radio saying that they have received very few complaints about overcrowding so for them there is no issue? So it's really time for people to let their voices / emails / letters be heard isnt it!!

I got a reply to my complaint about the current Connolly Mullingar situation from a Mr. Paul Slowey basically telling me the train is fine and it's shortened due to to cost cutting measures. He went on to say that while observers are monitoring the situation it is going to be like this for the forseeable future.

Seriously, is that all they have been saying to anyone else who complains. Like it or lump it in other words.

I tried to respond again but the email address he 'sent' from CustomerCare@IrishRail.ie has fatal errors apparently and is not recognised by the IR email system. How deliberately convenient.

How far are all these people standing? I hardly think that there are a hundred people standing beyond Maynooth?

[James Howard]

I'd just make the quick observation that anyone commuting from Dundalk to Dublin could spend exactly the same amount of time on 29k sets as anyone from Edgeworthstown, given that the Enterprise times don't really facilitate using that service, and only one of the four commuter trains out of Dundalk is 22k operated.
Dundalk is not the same journey time as Longford so that quick observation is not correct. The morning journey times vary from 1:17 to 1:28. The two Longford 29K services are 1:55 and 2:02. For Edgeworthstown, you can knock about 10 minutes off that. I usually spend nearly 2 hours on the 1805 as you have to be about 20 minutes early to be sure of a seat.

I've only taken this train once in the last month, but it wasn't particularly overcrowded the one time I took it. There were about 4 people standing to Mullingar in the car I was in. For me, the main problem is that the noise and small seats are not bearable for a two-hour train journey. It is also impossible for me to work on the train.

So now I've switched to using the 1705 or the 1905 which are run using trains suitable for the journey distance but it is really draining having to spend 14 hours per day away from home on the two long days.

Quite a few Longford commuters are now stuck using 29Ks both ways as the early train has gone back to a 22K which racks up to 20 hours a week. If Irish Rail management had to spend 20 hours a week on a 29K every week, they'd find a way to put on proper trains fairly sharpish.

[James Howard]

I've not read any complaints about the 29k per se from any of those passengers, so I have to say that I perceive your negative comments to represent a personal dislike of them, rather than one that is generally held.
Of course I have a personal dislike of 29Ks. I've spend several months of my life on the noisy clattery cramped cold stinking things. They are not a good place to spend 20 hours every week. At a stretch, they are suitable for a 1 hour journey. The only decent seat on them to get a bit of work done is right outside the toilet and the only thing that makes the stink of the toilet bearable is the skangers smoking in the toilet that covers the smell.

If the Dundalk passengers love 29Ks so much, perhaps Irish Rail could swap their 22K over to the Longford service, so that they could get a bit more of that sweet 29K action. :)

If only the stupid pols had kept their stupid noses out of the railway, we'd be gliding up and down the Sligo line in comfy silent Mark 3s.

[berneyarms]

Dundalk is not the same journey time as Longford so that quick observation is not correct. The morning journey times vary from 1:17 to 1:28. The two Longford 29K services are 1:55 and 2:02. For Edgeworthstown, you can knock about 10 minutes off that. I usually spend nearly 2 hours on the 1805 as you have to be about 20 minutes early to be sure of a seat.

I've only taken this train once in the last month, but it wasn't particularly overcrowded the one time I took it. There were about 4 people standing to Mullingar in the car I was in. For me, the main problem is that the noise and small seats are not bearable for a two-hour train journey. It is also impossible for me to work on the train.

So now I've switched to using the 1705 or the 1905 which are run using trains suitable for the journey distance but it is really draining having to spend 14 hours per day away from home on the two long days.

Quite a few Longford commuters are now stuck using 29Ks both ways as the early train has gone back to a 22K which racks up to 20 hours a week. If Irish Rail management had to spend 20 hours a week on a 29K every week, they'd find a way to put on proper trains fairly sharpish.

Whether you choose to spend the extra 20 mins on the train is up to you - I was comparing the travel times.

Anyone travelling from Dundalk to Pearse is spending at least 1 hour 30 + each way on 29k sets, which does compare with Edgeworthstown.

I'm merely observing that I've not noticed any of them complaining about the 29k sets here or elsewhere.

[James Howard]

You're still not comparing like with like. Pearse puts another 10 minutes on Longford services exactly the same as for Dundalk. The morning service is over two hours from Edgeworthstown to Pearse, the evening one is as long as it requires a change at Connolly. And if you're comparing Edgeworthstown, you should be comparing Drogheda. The extra 20 minutes at Connolly isn't really a choice. If you don't wait, you will definitely spend about 40 minutes standing and you stand a good chance of spending over an hour standing. Try doing that 5 times a week.

My point is that they should not be using these trains on 2 hour runs (Some of the Longford trains come from Bray so end-to-end you are not far off three hours actually). When Irish Rail put in the second 22K order they actually stated the reason for the order was that they would use the 22K from any runs longer than 1 hour so at the time they acknowledged themselves that the 29K didn't offer sufficient passenger comfort for this duration of a run.

Maybe it is something in the air on Longford, because this issue has massively pissed off any of the commuters I've talked to. If everyone on the Dundalk route is so happy with the service, that's their own business, but I know a couple of people on that line (around Drogheda and Rush) who have switched to buses as they are cheaper, more comfortable and faster.

[berneyarms]

You're still not comparing like with like. Pearse puts another 10 minutes on Longford services exactly the same as for Dundalk. The morning service is over two hours from Edgeworthstown to Pearse, the evening one is as long as it requires a change at Connolly. And if you're comparing Edgeworthstown, you should be comparing Drogheda. The extra 20 minutes at Connolly isn't really a choice. If you don't wait, you will definitely spend about 40 minutes standing and you stand a good chance of spending over an hour standing. Try doing that 5 times a week.

My point is that they should not be using these trains on 2 hour runs (Some of the Longford trains come from Bray so end-to-end you are not far off three hours actually). When Irish Rail put in the second 22K order they actually stated the reason for the order was that they would use the 22K from any runs longer than 1 hour so at the time they acknowledged themselves that the 29K didn't offer sufficient passenger comfort for this duration of a run.

Maybe it is something in the air on Longford, because this issue has massively pissed off any of the commuters I've talked to. If everyone on the Dundalk route is so happy with the service, that's their own business, but I know a couple of people on that line (around Drogheda and Rush) who have switched to buses as they are cheaper, more comfortable and faster.

James - I'm trying to make a point that there are and have been people on the Northern Line who have had to make journeys of a similar length in time perspective on 29k sets, yet I don't hear the same level of complaint as from you.

If I was to compare a journey on the Northern Line that is similar to Connolly/Edgeworthstown in terms of journey time, then Pearse/Dundalk is fairly close - they are both about 1 hour 35 or so. Whether you sit on it for an extra 20 minutes is your choice. People have to stand often for 35/40 minutes on the Northern line so I am comparing like with like.

I'm making the point that your objection to the 29k is down to a personal dislike for that trip rather than one that is generally prevailing - otherwise people on the Northern line would have been up in arms about them.

For the record - I do accept that they shouldn't be going any further than Longford.

As for the 22k sets on the Northern line - you know full well that they are maintained overnight in Drogheda and hence have to be on the Northern line first thing.

I appreciate what you're saying about what the sets were bought for, but we're now in completely different circumstances, exacerbated now by politicians cutting the subsidy yet expecting service levels to be magically maintained. The company is faced with trying to maintain services yet having to cut fleet size back. It's far from ideal, but what would you rather see - services cancelled?

I would be far more concerned that:
1) Services be maintained - i.e. that they continue to operate
2) Capacity be such that no one is standing beyond the short hop zone boundary

[James Howard]

I was on the 1805 this evening and it is quite alarming seeing how the loadings have dropped past Mullingar (which is about the same journey time as Dundalk). 8 people got off in Edgeworthstown tonight. Before all this messing started there would have been 25-30 people getting off this train in Edgeworthstown.

There were about 10 cars left in the station car-park - this would normally have been about 30. Probably 5 cars get left overnight on a typical Thursday. I generally get the intercity in the morning which is the last viable commuter train and this morning, the car-park had about 20 cars - if even that. A single commuter giving up from Edgeworthstown costs Irish Rail 4 grand. I would think that about 3 commuters would result in any savings being wiped out.

This will hopefully be my last journey on the 1805 so you can all stop reading my moaning about it.

[berneyarms]

I do understand your frustration James, don't get me wrong, but I do think that people are complaining in the wrong way.

You all need to start asking government TDs why they voted in favour of cutting the CIE Group PSO Subsidy. That is what is forcing the companies to make these changes, because they can't afford to keep operating all of the sets in the old configurations.

Until people start making politicians uncomfortable, there's not much that is going to change.

[Inniskeen]

A few comments about the 29Ks,

They are generally very reliable

They are good performers in terms of acceleration and braking.

They have a crush load carrying capacity similar to a DART.

On the down side they are noisy, drafty, have cramped seating, virtually no luggage space and afford little opportunity for passengers to work as they travel.

The 29Ks are ideally suited for short distance, short duration services with frequent stops and heavy loadings. However, Irish Rail services (with the exception of services out of Heuston) hold little attraction for longer distance commuters given the miserably slow nature of much of the service, indifferent reliability (particularly evening services on the northern line) and the predominance of low amenity rolling stock.

[DundalkStudent]

Whether you choose to spend the extra 20 mins on the train is up to you - I was comparing the travel times.

Anyone travelling from Dundalk to Pearse is spending at least 1 hour 30 + each way on 29k sets, which does compare with Edgeworthstown.

I'm merely observing that I've not noticed any of them complaining about the 29k sets here or elsewhere.

Guys, I don't want to speak for all Dundalk commuters but no body likes the 29ks. Although I rarely have to stand on rush hour commutes, I'm lucky as the intercities to Dublin tend to originate in Dundalk. Going from Pearse of an evening pretty much every seat is taken at Pearse so anyone joining Tara st. Or Connolly is standing. Busy Enterprises from Belfast can result in standing from Dundalk. The 22k at 7am tends to be busier than others in the morning, but no standing really until balbriggan+.

I think the difference you need to take into account Dublin/Longford vs. Dublin/Dundalk is not just train duration but other transport options: really good M1 and well provided for bus route both public and private. It would take less time to drive to dublin, can the same be said for Longford? As such, not massive numbers commute by rail from/to Dundalk. Somewhat bigger numbers to/from drogheda but the biggest numbers start and end at balbriggan, most likely due to price bracket changes (balbriggan is dublin commuter rate). Even I'm thinking of driving down to drogheda in the future and getting the train from there (more trains, lower fare, etc.). All of the above resulting in the probable reason you're not hearing feedback from Dundalk rail commuters: there aren't that many of us.

[James Howard]

For working office hours in the City Centre, the train used to be the best option by far. The motorway runs out at Kinnegad so the journey time by car to the city is approximately the same but the cost is prohibitive unless you can share it among 3 or 4 people even if you have free parking.

There are several things that could be done that would cost little or no money. The most obvious is that the 1715 could be eliminated past Maynooth - it is very little use to anybody. This would cause difficulties in getting a train down for one of the early services but this could be done by running the 1805 back up in two halves. The main drawback of this would be the need to make the early morning services limited stops after Maynooth so you would need to run stopping trains behind these two services or strengthen any 4-car 29k services running around the same time.

What's there now isn't really working as the services I use have now become very lightly loaded. Friday mornings are quiet anyway, but I am currently sitting on the 0545 Sligo train and my car has less than 30 people in it after Maynooth. This has an extra car (7 instead of 6) over the pre-change setup, but it would have had every seat full after Maynooth before the changes. I've had to share a 4-seat bay once before Maynooth this week.

The stated aim of this review is to save about 3 million a year, or approximately 2% of Irish Rail's budget. This is all well and fine and is all the politicians' fault but the fact is that this review has been counter-productive as it has driven paying passenger traffic down by massively more than 2%. My real concern is that with the damage they have done to the passenger levels, they are going to use this to further cut back services on the next timetable review.

[James Howard]

You all need to start asking government TDs why they voted in favour of cutting the CIE Group PSO Subsidy. That is what is forcing the companies to make these changes, because they can't afford to keep operating all of the sets in the old configurations.


There is no great mystery. One of our local government TDs voted against the closure of Mullingar barracks and lost the whip and a junior minstry as a result. Those that remain need to bide their time in case moves are made to downgrade Mullingar hospital or other critical infrastructure.

Several of us have made our TDs aware of the issue but I wouldn't expect any great changes. The fact is that for at least the next year, Irish Rail need to find ways to better use the resources they have. While they have made good progress over the last few years, one can see a hell of a lot of ways in which things could be improved.

Also, bear in mind that Irish Rail have just had close to a 10% increase in fares from long-haul commuters this year.

[AD11]

My concern is we are paying way more and getting way less while being additionally punished with extreme discomfort while doing so. When I was sure of a comfie seat to Mullingar on the 22k I wasnt on here, boards, facebook, twitter and emailing Irish Rail with complaints.

The money they will lose in dealing with additional complaints and driving passengers away will probably counteract the savings from the ill thought out cost cutting measure in any event.

I am seriously considering switching to the bus but I have no idea if thats any better or not. Unfortunately I dont have the option of working from home or alternating between the 17.05 / 19.05 which isnt ideal anyway as James points out.

[James Howard]

Here is an interesting little tidbit from the Rail Fares determination for this year that I cannot find any reference to anywhere else apart from a post on boards.ie. I'm not sure if the lack of info on the taxsaver site is just because they haven't gotten around to it or because they would like the trial to fail.

Personally, I would jump at the chance to add bus access to my annual pass for 200 euro (what it would be Edgeworthstown on a pro-rata basis). The last bus is at 11PM so I would be able to go out for a few pints after work.

Integrated Bus Éireann and Iarnród Éireann ticket:
The Authority has decided to introduce an integrated Bus Éireann / Iarnród Éireann ticket on a pilot basis in 2014. These tickets can be introduced where there is both a Bus Éireann service and an Iarnród Éireann service serving the same locations. The integrated tickets will be rolled out on the Dublin / Kilcock, Dublin / Enfield and Dublin / Mullingar routes in 2014 with a view to extending the number of locations subject to its successful operation on these routes.

The taxsaver price will be €3,307.50 as opposed to €3,150 for train only. So if you have taxsaver and are paying the top-rate it will cost about €70 out of pocket.

Prices are on Page 21.
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Determination-No-1.pdf

[berneyarms]

Here is an interesting little tidbit from the Rail Fares determination for this year that I cannot find any reference to anywhere else apart from a post on boards.ie. I'm not sure if the lack of info on the taxsaver site is just because they haven't gotten around to it or because they would like the trial to fail.

Personally, I would jump at the chance to add bus access to my annual pass for 200 euro (what it would be Edgeworthstown on a pro-rata basis). The last bus is at 11PM so I would be able to go out for a few pints after work.



The taxsaver price will be €3,307.50 as opposed to €3,150 for train only. So if you have taxsaver and are paying the top-rate it will cost about €70 out of pocket.

Prices are on Page 21.
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Determination-No-1.pdf

These are I suspect valid only on the 115 service which is PSO funded rather than on the Expressway services routes 22 or 23.

Edgeworthstown doesn't have a PSO bus service to Dublin, only the Athlone/Monaghan service.

[James Howard]

And this is reason for not having it?

Meanwhile in the real world, people can't take jobs in Dublin because the rail service isn't flexible enough and they can't afford 6 grand or whatever an all services pass costs.

[berneyarms]

And this is reason for not having it?

Meanwhile in the real world, people can't take jobs in Dublin because the rail service isn't flexible enough and they can't afford 6 grand or whatever an all services pass costs.

No - I'm just pointing out that I suspect it's restricted to the PSO services - that's all, which wouldn't really help you as you're in Edgworthstown.

[joey]

Four carriages, full train little to no seats after ballymote. Full of students going back to Dublin. Why isn't it a five or six carriage set, be standing room only come carrick

whatever the delay is too... 1825 before departing colooney, 15mins late. Hope it makes the time back as I have to make a connection to a commuter in maynooth

[Jamie2k9]

I got a 5 coach on 18.05 ex Waterford and standing room only leaving Kilkenny, way worse than last week. Not even sure a 6 coach would do but it would be a a major help.

[joey]

standing room only on this now from mullingar
making a miraclous recovery after leaving collooney 20 mins late.

[joey]

just made the commuter in maynooth. they want to up the ante in carriages

[berneyarms]

I suspect that the fact that the All-Ireland football final was on this afternoon may have disrupted people's travel patterns, with people who would (for example) travel on the 16:30 from Sligo deferring until the 18:00 so that they could watch the match to the conclusion.

If I recall correctly, something similar happened last Spring on the Sunday afternoon when Ireland played a six-nations match.

[Jamie2k9]

I suspect that the fact that the All-Ireland football final was on this afternoon may have disrupted people's travel patterns, with people who would (for example) travel on the 16:30 from Sligo deferring until the 18:00 so that they could watch the match to the conclusion.

If I recall correctly, something similar happened last Spring on the Sunday afternoon when Ireland played a six-nations match.

I suspect that Sligo followed by Waterford continue to draw the short straws. Irish Rail would have load data from last Sunday and I expect the services had people standing (Waterford did) combined that this week is the really the first week all colleges are back. The match would of had minimal effect.

This is just IE carrying on with the usual BS week after week. What they will probably do like last year is wait until numbers are driven down to the sets capacity and say no more about the real problem. Im sure those 22 running to/from Cork had a the right capacity in place.

Now nobody use the excuse of the few All Ireland Specials as regular service should be protected as a once off specials don't cover the other 362 days revenue from regular passengers. Im sure those lovely Marl IV had a very relaxed weekend instead of covering for any possible weekend 22 changes to accommodate the specials!

Time for the NTA to step up and cut route subsidy if IE wont provide an adequate service instead giving IE everything 99% of the time.

[joey]

It was pretty much crammed with students. Standing room only from Longford through to maynooth when I got off.
I suspect IE do not take a look at the load patterns or bookings. They should know well what kind of loadings on a particular route. No way is there a sudden increase in demand within 24-48hours.

I also suspect there was plenty of seating available for the special back to Tralee tonight!!

IE no interest in the rest of the other Joe Soaps travelling throughout the year.

[Jamie2k9]

Fourth Mark IV back in full service from Sunday. Perhaps last weekend was costly on giving out refunds surly it couldn't be for passenger comfort!

09.20, 16.20 Cork-Dublin (Mon-Sat), 12.20, 19.20 (Sun)
13.00, 21.00 Dublin-Cork (Mon-Sat), 16.00, 21.00 (Sun)

At busy times on Friday/Sunday it means that 2 (4 coach), 1 (3 coach) sets are available.

[Mark Gleeson]

As of Monday

1 Extra Mk4 set in full-time service
1 Extra 3 car ICR

Soon
1 3 car ICR will become 4 cars

[Jamie2k9]

Good to see 14 is back to.

Not really relevant to this threat (new one?) but it still poses a big question of when the 22's go to Belfast and the major impact to services could very easily require at least 2 more Mark IV in service.

At all times at least 2 FC sets will be needed in Connolly, 1 operating and 1 spare/close by combined with the very likely possibility that 8 coach will be needed at busy times (ie Friday).

The FC sets are in high demand and operate as all STD on many routes so losing two will cause big issues as 4 coach will be to small and there won't be enough 6/7 units available to make up the shortfall while 8 coach units are limited to Cork and possibly Limerick (which would never need 8 sets)

A fifth Mark IV will free up 1 FC set and a sixth will have minimal effect unless it was scheduled on another route such as Limerick. Either that or we may need to see some 4 coach sets being increased to 5 and the number of 3 coach units being increased as a result. I could possibly see them favoring changes to 22 than increasing Mark IV if they had to. Then again possibly a very long shot, NIR may step in on busy days to very unlikely imo.

I'm thinking IE hadn't planned on bringing a fourth Mark IV back at this time and will have some big decisions to make in the coming months.

Passenger numbers must be doing well which is a positive.

[berneyarms]

Good to see 14 is back to.

Not really relevant to this threat (new one?) but it still poses a big question of when the 22's go to Belfast and the major impact to services could very easily require at least 2 more Mark IV in service.

At all times at least 2 FC sets will be needed in Connolly, 1 operating and 1 spare/close by combined with the very likely possibility that 8 coach will be needed at busy times (ie Friday).

The FC sets are in high demand and operate as all STD on many routes so losing two will cause big issues as 4 coach will be to small and there won't be enough 6/7 units available to make up the shortfall while 8 coach units are limited to Cork and possibly Limerick (which would never need 8 sets)

A fifth Mark IV will free up 1 FC set and a sixth will have minimal effect unless it was scheduled on another route such as Limerick. Either that or we may need to see some 4 coach sets being increased to 5 and the number of 3 coach units being increased as a result. I could possibly see them favoring changes to 22 than increasing Mark IV if they had to. Then again possibly a very long shot, NIR may step in on busy days to very unlikely imo.

I'm thinking IE hadn't planned on bringing a fourth Mark IV back at this time and will have some big decisions to make in the coming months.

Passenger numbers must be doing well which is a positive.

Why would you need two First Class sets in Connolly? They only have one Enterprise set there as it is.

I'm pretty sure you'd see the status quo - if the ICR fails, a 29k would replace it.

[Jamie2k9]

Why would you need two First Class sets in Connolly? They only have one Enterprise set there as it is.

I'm pretty sure you'd see the status quo - if the ICR fails, a 29k would replace it.

Fitting 3 units is not for no reason. They will keep it close by, possibly scheduled on Sligo services. Even if they just give one set over the current changes from this week are a welcome but there will still be problems with overcrowding. They only act when it gets to a critical level. 100 passengers standing don't seem to be an issue for them currently. As the economy continues to improve so will passengers and IE will need to deal with the issues. The current standard line from customer service of "your comments will be passed to operation planners at Heuston" isn't a long term solution when there is usually no solution to the problem.

The real problem is getting capacity right and IE will not replace current 5 coach service with 6 or 7 and this is where the problem lies. Its an extra cost and you will have lots of 4 coach units. Remember out of Heuston 4 coach operations have being the biggest benefit to Cork services and as Mark IV gradually take over again this is where the issue is. You currently see very few lone 4 coach operation on other routes bar the odd off peak services usually ex Heuston excluding Athlone/Portlaoise commuter. Connolly is a different story.

Its speculation of course however the majority of passengers wouldn't trust IE to ensure services are protected fully when the changes happen.

[joey]

The ante was upped this evening. 1800 ex Sligo was an 8 car 29k, credit where credit is due. Pity it was a 29k, suppose beggars can't be choosers

[Thomas J Stamp]

Just for the benefit of others can we refrain from acronyms in posts thanks.

[Jamie2k9]

Irish Rail must be having great fun, 18.05 has gone from an over crowded 5 coach to a 6 coach which matched demand down to a 4 coach....sure why not stick a 3 coach or not even run the service for the crack.

Demand for Waterford-Limerick J must be booming as it gets increased to a 4 coach train tomorrow....

The NTA will be getting a call tomorrow.

[James Howard]

I've long since given up on the 1805 to Longford when they stopped using intercity rail cars on it. I can usually get a useful hour's work done on the way home, but it just isn't possible for me on the cramped commuter trains.

Irish Rail are being incredibly short-sighted in their use of inadequate rolling stock on the Sligo line. With the cost of fuel, tolls and parking, a lot of people around me have gotten into the habit of taking the train to Dublin from Edgeworthstown or Longford. But now with the economy starting to improve a bit, as the car is more comfortable, people will switch back after one or two commuter railcar journeys despite the extra expense.

[Jamie2k9]

I suppose I should be grateful, they are preparing passengers for it to become a permanent measure from 23 November once 22s begin serving Belfast.

The biggest problem is passengers who don't get a seat on a Friday or a Sunday and how they expect them to pay full price for the pleasure to stand and retain them at the same time. The general attitude from students is the train is only a few euro extra over the bus something which IE should be capitalizing on. Not something you hear to often when it comes to bus v train.

This coming Bank Holiday Monday will be the fifth in a row where they will throw a 3, possibly a 4 coach if you lucky and make an excuse for the inadequate capacity. 90% of loads on Sunday will automatically transfer to a Monday but they don't do a single thing about it.

[James Howard]

This seems to have become normal pattern on the Tuesday following a bank holiday but the 0545 from Sligo this morning was only 4 cars instead of the usual 7. Very uncomfortable stuffy journey on a wet miserable morning as the air conditioning couldn't cope with the wet coats, etc.

We'll probably be back to 7 tomorrow morning with about 30% less load. The fruits of last year's "capacity reconfiguration" still keep giving on the Sligo line where the 0545 is too long and the 0700 is too short. The former is slightly busier but not by much.