Delay & Ticket buying

[Via Cortober]

I usually take the car to Dublin. But then, occasionally, I have a cranial disturbance of some kind and decide to get the train from Carrick-on-Shannon to Connolly.

I try to book online, thinking that a day-return would be a bit cheaper if purchased that way. But nope, it's €3 more expensive, and I'm not sure that I can collect a ticket at Carrick-on-Shannon when it's been bought online. There is no ticket vending machine there... still, after it was promised two years ago. No update on the discussion here (http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=11733).

So, to be sure to be sure I buy it at the station (€30.50) and the off-peak journey up to Dublin is fine.

When I arrive at Connolly for the return leg on the 19.05 Dublin-Sligo train there's something amiss because the station announcer is apologising for having to re-direct passengers to Platform 3 because, I gather (rather than 'hear'), the train's arrival has been delayed by the late arrival of another train.

Eventually our train appears close to 7pm and we all get on board. And wait. And wait. And wait. And then there's an apology for the delayed departure due to a train having broken down on the line between Enfield and Mullingar.

This line is repeated several times and passengers travelling to Maynooth are advised to do a bunk and catch a commuter train on platform 7.

Then we get an announcement that services are suspended on the Dublin-Sligo line until further notice. However, we are to remain in our seats. This is repeated a few times and then a member of staff goes through the train checking our individual destinations, in case, I presume, that a bus has to be mustered from somewhere.

These announcements continue... "Iarnród Éireann would like to apologise..." etc... until, without much fanfare, we're told that the train will shortly depart. Which it does at 20.10pm. I arrived at Carrick-on-Shannon at 22.34, an hour and thirteen minutes late.

Any chance I can get my money back from IÉ?

[Mark Gleeson]

50% refund is available to you, so its 25% of the face value. If you had had booked online the refund would have been direct to the credit card used, otherwise its vouchers

Send the ticket, plus details of your journey to

Customer Services
Northern and Eastern
Iarnród Éireann
Connolly Station
Amiens Street
Dublin 1

Contact 01 703 2601
Fax (01) 703 4369

The breakdown resulted in major disruption and holding the 19:05 in Connolly was appropriate as trains were already stuck at Maynooth and it is much easier arrange coaches if required.

In this case the reason for delay was immediately made known, alternatives where available communicated and steps to taken to take head count to ensure bus numbers and destination could be planned if needed. This is a major improvement over the past when total silence was the game plan.

You should have been told of your right to a refund once the train actually departed

[Via Cortober]

Thanks, Mark.
So if you pay by debit card at the station you don't get a cash credit, whereas if you pay online with the same card you do? Curious.

Any update on the online ticket purchase/pricing, and ticket vending machine issues for Carrick-on-Shannon? I didn't find the company's explanations in the least bit credible when I last engaged with them by email on the matter a couple of years back.

This would seem to be borne out by the lack of progress since, so there's no incentive to grow business. The approach seems to be to exploit (ie screw) the existing customer base rather than try to broaden and develop it.

[Mark Gleeson]

You can book from Carrick on Shannon if you want, it does work. Simply bring the booking confirmation page printed out.

Refunds on online purchases are made direct to the card as that is on file and can be done automatically, plus there is a legal obligation to refund tickets for cross border journeys in cash.

2013 revenue is up vs 2012 ;)

[Via Cortober]

2013 revenue is up vs 2012 ;)

Hmm, yesss... and the numbers of inter-city tickets sold in each category? Are they also up or is it merely a case of increased prices = increased revenue?

Thanks for the Carrick booking info.

[Mark Gleeson]

Month on month growth is what I have been told, so this goes beyond the basic fare increase.

Anything further with online fares will require replacement of the booking/fares engine.

We might even sell Irish Rail our fares engine, http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/fare_calc_2013.php it works better than anything they have internally

[Via Cortober]

Anything further with online fares will require replacement of the booking/fares engine.

I can imagine. Their IT wizards should go the way of the spur line to the RDS / Goffs in Ballsbridge which, regrettably, I'm old enough to remember.

[Mark Gleeson]

If you can fit the full fares engine into 64kb let us know, Irish Rail would really like to talk to you. The existing booking office equipment is past it and that is the key restriction as it must be replaced in order to support the upcoming change in the fare structures

Our fares engine consistently beats Irish Rail in terms of accuracy plus on our side we can show the basis of the fare determination. Our tool already supports both the existing and future fare structure.

The existing booking engine was hand built internally in 2005 at minimal cost on the premise of basic point to point intercity fares on certain routes. it works pretty well but it can't cope with the strange fare structure Irish Rail has once we try a complex routing

[Via Cortober]

it can't cope with the strange fare structure Irish Rail has once we try a complex routing

Why am I not surprised. You probably need to incorporate a complex routing randomising script into your software. ;)

[dowlingm]

2013 revenue is up vs 2012 ;)Hopefully it will stay that way once the manager-as-ticket-checker blitzes ease off.

[Colm Moore]

If I'm right, any payment from a credit card, where ever it happened should be refunded to the credit card. I'm not sure about debit cards.

[Jamie2k9]

Month on month growth is what I have been told, so this goes beyond the basic fare increase.

Any idea of the type of growth. Intercity or Dublin commuter area. It needs to e Intercity for routes to be more viable IMO and is it across the board are on particular routes.

[joey]

[QUOTE=Via Cortober;72391]

Any update on the online ticket purchase/pricing, and ticket vending machine issues for Carrick-on-Shannon?

Severe lack of TVMs right across the board. Even inner city Dublin lacks them, do they not take fare evasion into consideration?

[Mark Gleeson]

One station in Dublin only lacks a TVM, mainly due to the risk that it will be burned, robbed or stolen.

In a roundabout way this actually has been a huge asset in fare evasion prosecutions, "I got on at Broombridge....", Irish Rail, "no you didn't as we had staff there this morning, and have the CCTV to prove you were not there."

[Via Cortober]

Thanks, all.

Has the company withdrawn all discounted fares for tickets bought online or are they only available on particular services, at particular times, when booked far enough in advance? Or is it just on the Sligo intercity service that no discounts are available?

Every off-peak empty seat is money lost. They should find a way to sell unused capacity at a discount, built around an integrated, real-time 100% reserved seat system (that could cope with multiple passengers using the same seat for sequential segments of an intercity route). Then the ticket offices - using real time booking - could even sell a limited number of standing-room only tickets at an ultra-low price. Maybe this is Iarnród Utopia rather than Iarnród Éireann!

[berneyarms]

Thanks, all.

Has the company withdrawn all discounted fares for tickets bought online or are they only available on particular services, at particular times, when booked far enough in advance? Or is it just on the Sligo intercity service that no discounts are available?

Every off-peak empty seat is money lost. They should find a way to sell unused capacity at a discount, built around an integrated, real-time 100% reserved seat system (that could cope with multiple passengers using the same seat for sequential segments of an intercity route). Then the ticket offices - using real time booking - could even sell a limited number of standing-room only tickets at an ultra-low price. Maybe this is Iarnród Utopia rather than Iarnród Éireann!

The discounts are still there.

Once you book at least 7 days in advance you can avail of the €14.99 each way fare on the Sligo route.

Within 1-6 days the fare rises to €21.99 each way, and €32.99 on the day of travel.

The only exception to this are the following trains that cannot be booked online as they are operated by commuter trains:
13:05 ex-Connolly and 18:00 from Sligo on Fridays
09:05 ex-Connolly and 13:00 from Sligo on Sundays

Some of the peak trains will have higher fares (such as Friday evenings from Dublin).

Full information is here:
http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_offers.jsp?i=4577&p=118&n=144&ci=4

[James Howard]

There are a couple of major issues with moving to 100% reservations which largely revolve around passes. But to be honest, an expectation of needing a reservation would be a right pain for me as a commuter.

Firstly, there are 1 million people out there with free travel passes who can just rock up whenever they like and jump on any train for free. On off-peak services this probably accounts for 50% of the business.

Secondly, Irish Rail's core business on the Sligo line between Longford and Dublin is commuters travelling on passes. You don't pay close to 4 grand a year to either stand or have to book a seat. I tend to get the same train every morning and evening, but I probably change plans at short notice once or twice a week.

Finallly, booking doesn't really suit people travelling from Longford or closer who account for about 80% of the traffic on the line. If you take the train from Carrick or further to Dublin, you need to be organised for the day, it is an unusual event and you are likely to know about it several days in advance. For those travelling from Longford or closer, a train journey to Dublin is a much more casual thing and you are likely to want to be a lot more flexible especially with returning when there is a train every how between 3 and 7.

I travel from Edgeworthstown where there has been two empty TVM cabinets for a year. At the moment the station is open on very restricted hours (well short of those published) due to the sudden untimely death of one of the two men who normally staff it. This is the case for a lot of the smaller stations where it basically isn't possible to book on-line and depend on being able to pick up a booked ticket.

[Jamie2k9]

Firstly, there are 1 million people out there with free travel passes who can just rock up whenever they like and jump on any train for free. On off-peak services this probably accounts for 50% of the business.

Just because you have a pass it doesn't mean you have to get a seat. If you want a seat then pay for it online or take the chance and hope for the best. Moving to 100% reservation would be good as many pass holders will bring in revenue for IE as many will reserve a seat when they can't just rock up on the day.

I the pass side, the reduced DART's must be having some benefit, surly pass holder numbers traveling have dropped especially at peak times?

Are IE doing anything about the pass numbers, ie asking for peak restrictions or a small fee per passenger. You don't get everything free on the medial card, so the same should happen for passes.

[Colm Moore]

Thanks, all.

Has the company withdrawn all discounted fares for tickets bought online or are they only available on particular services, at particular times, when booked far enough in advance? Or is it just on the Sligo intercity service that no discounts are available?

Every off-peak empty seat is money lost. They should find a way to sell unused capacity at a discount, built around an integrated, real-time 100% reserved seat system (that could cope with multiple passengers using the same seat for sequential segments of an intercity route). Then the ticket offices - using real time booking - could even sell a limited number of standing-room only tickets at an ultra-low price. Maybe this is Iarnród Utopia rather than Iarnród Éireann!The system has been a little buggy for the last while, with discounted fares disappearing completely at times.

Selling unused capacity at a discount doesn't always work. If you are selling 50 tickets at €20 or 60 tickets at €10, it is better value for the railway company to carry fewer people.

Train is much more popular than bus from Sligo, Mayo and Roscommon because of distance and other quality of service issues - the railway has a somewhat captive market. Contrast that with the bus market from Galway and Cork, where speed, frequency and low fares make them competitive for some market sectors.

[Via Cortober]

The system has been a little buggy for the last while, with discounted fares disappearing completely at times.

Maybe that explains it because I did try with dates farther off and there was no change.

I take the earlier points re Longford/Dublin commuter service, and re empty seats and discounting. It seems to add up to the provision of different services within the same spatial contraints, without real-time knowledge of the numbers of tickets sold. And there's no reason why pass-holders should not have to pre-book their tickets and seats using their pass number as a booking PIN.

It's probably no news to anyone here but when it came to buying my ticket online there was no clarity on the IÉ website about ticket pricing relative to the timing of my purchase. They don't tell the customer what discounts are available on their standard prices - for tickets bought online - for certain journeys - so many days in advance of travelling.

So, given the timing, the price I would have paid online was actually dearer - adding the online transaction costs - than buying the ticket in the station 10mins before travelling.

PS
The €14.99 one-way fare x 2 (return) booked online seven+ days in advance comes to €29.98 + €2 transaction = €31.98 (using a debit card and leaving out the €1 for a credit card charge). The ticket bought on the day at the station came to €30.50. So no discounts for same day return tickets.

[joey]

I travel from Edgeworthstown where there has been two empty TVM cabinets for a year. At the moment the station is open on very restricted hours.

I travel reguarly from Cooloney and its the same there, two empty TVM cabinets. Granted there is little to no chance of fare evasion as the services are always well managed by IR staff. But for the convience of buying and collecting online tickets booked it would be helpful even if there was one machine in operation

[joey]

One station in Dublin only lacks a TVM, mainly due to the risk that it will be burned, robbed or stolen.

In a roundabout way this actually has been a huge asset in fare evasion prosecutions, "I got on at Broombridge....", Irish Rail, "no you didn't as we had staff there this morning, and have the CCTV to prove you were not there."

Fully agree and appreciate that.
However, Ashtown missing TVM on Dublin City bound platform

[Mark Gleeson]

Pretty sure Ashtown city bound has a machine hidden under the footbridge

[Colm Moore]

Pretty sure Ashtown city bound has a machine hidden under the footbridgeThe problem is for people who live north of the line having to cross the railway twice.

[Mark Gleeson]

Ashtown has machines on both sides and access on both sides

[joey]

Just a leap card machine under the footbridge - city bound.

Two TVMs have appeared in Cooloney, well done IR

[Via Cortober]

Two TVMs have appeared in Cooloney, well done IR


Hmm, two TVMs in Collooney (and none in Carrick-on-Shannon)!? Am I missing something, is there a busy commuter service from Collooney into Sligo? Or is it in preparation for re-opening the long-lamented lines to Enniskillen and Claremorris?

[haddockman]

PS
The €14.99 one-way fare x 2 (return) booked online seven+ days in advance comes to €29.98 + €2 transaction = €31.98 (using a debit card and leaving out the €1 for a credit card charge). The ticket bought on the day at the station came to €30.50. So no discounts for same day return tickets.
Also if you book online you are forced to commit to a particular train for each segment of the journey.
If you rock up to the station on the day you have the freedom to use any service that day and it is cheaper too.

[Via Cortober]

Yep, Haddockman.

It's difficult to imagine that it's not intentional, but that the logic cannot be explained because it might be controversial. If there has to be a person at a station ticket office then there can be little benefit to selling cheaper tickets in advance online. Perhaps the deployment of TVMs in certain circumstances may depend on staff retirements?

[comcor]

Also if you book online you are forced to commit to a particular train for each segment of the journey.
If you rock up to the station on the day you have the freedom to use any service that day and it is cheaper too.

This one bugs me greatly. I would like to be offered the choice of a flexible ticket (for the return portion, but why not even for the full journey) online, even if it means I will be paying more.

Often if travelling to Dublin for work, I know I will be on the 6am train ex Cork. I don't know for certain what time I will finish up or whether I will end up socializing with people from the Dublin office, so I could be on any one of the 5pm, 6pm, 7pm or 9pm trains down.

What all this means is that I end up buying my ticket in the station at 5:50am. It doesn't encourage online booking.

[Jamie2k9]

This one bugs me greatly. I would like to be offered the choice of a flexible ticket (for the return portion, but why not even for the full journey) online, even if it means I will be paying more.

Often if travelling to Dublin for work, I know I will be on the 6am train ex Cork. I don't know for certain what time I will finish up or whether I will end up socializing with people from the Dublin office, so I could be on any one of the 5pm, 6pm, 7pm or 9pm trains down.

What all this means is that I end up buying my ticket in the station at 5:50am. It doesn't encourage online booking.

The cost of changing a train is very rarely enforced.

[joey]

Also if you book online you are forced to commit to a particular train for each segment of the journey.
If you rock up to the station on the day you have the freedom to use any service that day and it is cheaper too.

Surely that's not on!!
What's the encouragement or advantage of prepaying online, sending money directly to the bank account of IR

[joey]

Two TVMs have appeared in Cooloney, well done IR


Hmm, two TVMs in Collooney (and none in Carrick-on-Shannon)!? Am I missing something, is there a busy commuter service from Collooney into Sligo? Or is it in preparation for re-opening the long-lamented lines to Enniskillen and Claremorris?

I'll add a photo link to show these very shiny and clean machines off!!

I can also confirm, the claremorris and enniskillen lines have not reopened....
Nor is there busy commuter services - though there is the odd 29k commuter floating around the line...

[James Howard]

Obviously something going on with the Sligo line. Two machines have just appeared in Edgeworthstown as well. Oddly enough, you can only buy Sligo line tickets on them - you can't even buy a through ticket to Dun Laoghaire for example. Maybe this is normal, I've never used a TVM in Ireland apart from the Luas.

[comcor]

Not being able to buy through tickets is normal enough at a TVM. From Cork, I can't buy a ticket to a DART station. From Cobh and Midleton you can't buy a ticket to Dublin.

[Colm Moore]

you can only buy Sligo line tickets on them All Irish Rail TVMs are set up such that you can only buy a ticket on the same line.

[Thomas Ralph]

All Irish Rail TVMs are set up such that you can only buy a ticket on the same line.

That doesn't mean it's right!

[James Howard]

It kind of makes it a bit pointless as when they inevitably curtail the hours of the station even further this just makes it a pain for customers and Irish Rail. There there will be a much more complicated transaction involved to add the difference onto the fare.

[joey]

Cheaper to buy a ticket on the day from the machine, rather than booking online - good job IR ;-)

4 car set of a 29K 1800 ex Sligo Friday evening miracously made up a twenty minute delay to arrive just a minute late into maynooth. It was a flyer though the usual ten minute stop in edgeworthstown (22K to Longford) was avoided so this helped to bring the delay back in line.

Bumpy enough now in places....

What's the max speed of a 29K?

[Colm Moore]

What's the max speed of a 29K?75 mph / 120 km/h