[09/07/2013] Severe delays to/from Heuston (second incident)

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4867&p=116&n=237

Severe disruption to services in and out of Heuston due to a fatality at Kildare


09 July 2013

11:35hrs

Severe disruption is expected to services in and out of Heuston

The 10:00hrs service from Heuston to Cork struck and fatally injured a person at Kildare

Efforts are now being made to source bus transfers for all services currently enroute to Heuston

There are currently no services departing Heuston

Emergency services are at the scene, but disruption is expected to continue for some time

Updates will be posted on this website and on twitter @irishrail

Iarnród Éireann apologises for any inconvenience caused

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4867&p=116&n=237

Services back operating into Heuston after earlier incident at Kildare


09 July 2013

12:15hrs

Services are back operating into Heuston after earlier incident.

Services remain suspended out of Heuston at present.

Updates will be posted on this website and on twitter @irishrail

Iarnród Éireann apologises for any inconvenience caused

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4869&p=116&n=237
Delays to services to and from Heuston


09 July 2013

Delays to services to and from Heuston up to 60mins due to a mechanical fault on a track maintenance machine.

This website will be updated as further information is made available.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for any inconvenience caused.

[Colm Moore]

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4869&p=116&n=237Delays up to 80 minutes to services to and from Heuston
09 July 2013
Update: 16. 50hrs

Delays to services to and from Heuston up to 80mins remain due to a mechanical fault on a track maintenance machine.

This website will be updated as further information is made available.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for any inconvenience caused.

[Jamie2k9]

Signal fault at Cherryville latest problem added to the list.

[Jamie2k9]

Services back moving, I am currently 2h50m late.:mad:

[plant43]

What is the reasoning behind having a track maintenance machine moving around at peak times?

[Jamie2k9]

What is the reasoning behind having a track maintenance machine moving around at peak times?

would not call 14.30 peak time and even if it was scheduled to be earlier outbound Heuston services didn't resume until 12.45 this afternoon.

[plant43]

First announcement on twitter that it had failed was at approx 16:30, which is peak time. Even if it was delayed because of the earlier Kildare incident, surely passenger services should take priority.

[Jamie2k9]

It failed before 14.45 departure to Westport as all trains since then have being stopped, single line was used for a little bit, then the signal failure at Cherryville which at the minute is causing more delays.

[Jamie2k9]

Services from Heuston have being stopped since 18.20 as the 14.50 from Waterford is blocking the 15.10 at Cherryville Junction. Driver hops to be moving soon, have heard this one a lot today.

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4869&p=116&n=237
Delays in and out of Heuston are beginning to ease


09 July 2013

Update: 19:15hrs

Services in and out of Heuston are back moving after earlier disruption hich was caused by a mechanical fault on a train between Newbridge and Sallins.

The signal fault at Cherryville Junction has now been repaired

Iarnród Éireann apologises for any inconvenience caused.


On the move 3 and a half hours late.

I see a rumour started on twitter saying the heat caused a track problem and not a broken machine. Anyone confirm?

18.25 from Waterford-Heuston will be a bus transfer.

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4870&p=116&n=237

Iarnród Éireann would like to apologise to customers travelling with us today


09 July 2013

Iarnród Éireann would like to apologise to customers travelling with us today, Tuesday 9th July, on services into and out of Heuston station.

At 10:30 the Dublin to Cork train fatally struck a person on the track at Kildare. This resulted in delays of up to 150 minutes to all services into lunchtime whilst emergency services and Gardai were in attendance.



15:00 a track maintenance machine failed between Sallins and Newbridge blocking trains out of Heuston station. During this time a signal fault developed at Cherryville Junction at 15:40 causing further delays to trains into and out of Heuston station. Due to these two faults severe delays were experienced throughout the evening.



Passengers on services affected by the track machine and signal failure this evening are entitled to claim a refund under the Iarnród Éireann Passenger Charter as follows;
•One to two hours 50%
•Two hours or more 100%
•To apply for a refund fill out a refund application form, attach your ticket, post it to the address on the form



Iarnród Éireann apologise for any inconvenience caused.

[grainne whale]

Train failures and signalling faults are all too common now - and this inept company are concentrating all their efforts on fare evasion - enough said :D

[laoisfan]

Train failures and signalling faults are all too common now - and this inept company are concentrating all their efforts on fare evasion - enough said :D

I don't mind failures etc $hit happens! What I do mind is that there was no plan whatsoever yesterday in place to alleviatethe delays e.g. start combining services in Heuston and dropping other services. They wouldn't even do that because they did not have the capacity.

I was on the 5:05 train to Ballybrophy ( got there about 9:30 ). It was half-empty.

My friend was on the 4:25 to Ballybrophy ( got there about 8:50 ). It was also half-empty.

[comcor]

I would hope someone has done an analysis that says that the fare evasion crackdown will pay for itself through issued fines and increased compliance.

[grainne whale]

I would hope someone has done an analysis that says that the fare evasion crackdown will pay for itself through issued fines and increased compliance.
' probably just cover the new CEO's salary, allowances etc.:)

[laoisfan]

I've just posted off my claim form with a photocopy of my annual ticket.

Most likely they will issue vouchers.

Do they print your name on the vouchers? I was hoping to give them to a friend of mine who typically goes up 1-2 days per week from Ballybrophy. Might save them some money perhaps.

EVERYONE CLAIM!!

Don't let this shower away with this.

Sorry for the all-caps above. I've wrecked this morning (poor widdle me ;) )

[grainne whale]

I've just posted off my claim form with a photocopy of my annual ticket.

Most likely they will issue vouchers.

Do they print your name on the vouchers? I was hoping to give them to a friend of mine who typically goes up 1-2 days per week from Ballybrophy. Might save them some money perhaps.

EVERYONE CLAIM!!

Don't let this shower away with this.

Sorry for the all-caps above. I've wrecked this morning (poor widdle me ;) )I don't blame you, I was delayed as well (1 Hour - but only going to Hazelhatch), but nothing like other people, a work colleague who commutes from Thurles, he got a train around 4ish and reached Thurles at 9.25pm.:eek:

[laoisfan]

I don't blame you, I was delayed as well (1 Hour - but only going to Hazelhatch), but nothing like other people, a work colleague who commutes from Thurles, he got a train around 4ish and reached Thurles at 9.25pm.:eek:

The thing which really irritates me is that there was no leadership shown here. A year or two ago something similar happened and they started to cancel/merge certain services to reduce the amount of possible delay. Why could they not do that yesterday? Is the place in such a shambles? I was talking to the guys at the ticket validating machines in Heuston and they did not have a clue. Not blaming them per say but the whole thing was like something out of Father Ted.

Can Mark & the other shed any light on yesterday's joke of a service and why they did not merge services out of Heuston?

[laoisfan]

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4870&p=116&n=237

Irish Rail are some shower of............

The above link contains a link to the claim form....for the Northern & Eastern lines...basically Connolly Station.

They should be posting up the link for the Southern & Western line....Heuston.

I notice also that that news article is no longer visible on the News & Service Updates section of their website. George Orwell's 1984 springs to mind :rolleyes:

[Jamie2k9]

Combining services in hot weather and having them way overcrowded isn't a good mix and as a passenger I would prefer to be on less packed trains and stopped.

I still think their is more than meets the eye, as after the machine was moved, and things got moving, then Cherryville Junction was blocked for 40 minutes, Even after all this services were still taking 2hours to get to Kildare with nothing blocking them, it was lather that evening that the signal fault returned.

If they wanted to they could of pushed the track machine to Kildare by the Westport train but no that would be to sensible so that's why I think it was something with the track.

They should of stopped departures from Heuston and had some bus transfers and not back up lines to from Nass to Inchicore.

[laoisfan]

Combining services in hot weather and having them way overcrowded isn't a good mix and as a passenger I would prefer to be on less packed trains and stopped.

I still think their is more than meets the eye, as after the machine was moved, and things got moving, then Cherryville Junction was blocked for 40 minutes, Even after all this services were still taking 2hours to get to Kildare with nothing blocking them, it was lather that evening that the signal fault returned.

If they wanted to they could of pushed the track machine to Kildare by the Westport train but no that would be to sensible so that's why I think it was something with the track.

They should of stopped departures from Heuston and had some bus transfers and not back up lines to from Nass to Inchicore.

I can understand the over crowding....but lets be honest about this....they really don't give a $hit any other time now do they?

They replied to me on twitter and said they did not have the capacity to combine/merge etc.

Not a swipe at you mate :shake:

[grainne whale]

It's just very poor management from top to bottom.:rolleyes:

[Jamie2k9]

I can understand the over crowding....but lets be honest about this....they really don't give a $hit any other time now do they?

They replied to me on twitter and said they did not have the capacity to combine/merge etc.

Not a swipe at you mate :shake:

They may of not had correct capacity after the Kildare problem, trains for work in Portlaose would of being schedule and then this happened in the middle of the afternoon when trains operate to Dublin for the evening peak.

[Mark Gleeson]

Yesterday was just plain unfortunate

The fatality at Kildare earlier put everything out of order to start with

The maintenance train failure occurred mid afternoon (Kildare was its base), single line working was implemented around the train. And this time since the new signalling was in place it was actually do able unlike incidents in the past where trains could not get in to the loop at Sallins

This left a large portion of the fleet south of Kildare, i.e, not able to get to Dublin for the evening rush

The later Cherryville Junction issue was by standards a relatively straightforward issue.

The only operational issue is that no shuttle service was operated from Hazelhatch to Heuston in the evening and from Newbridge to Heuston in the morning, that's the kind of on the go change that should be automatic. It doesn't help everyone but it gets a significant number of passengers moving to destination and can quickly be shifted to operate through to destination

[laoisfan]

Thanks Mark.

Well I've filled out the Southern & Western refund claim form. Seeing as I am an annual ticket holder (valid until Jan 2014) I've included a photocopy of the annual pass.

[grainne whale]

Yesterday was just plain unfortunate

The fatality at Kildare earlier put everything out of order to start with

The maintenance train failure occurred mid afternoon (Kildare was its base), single line working was implemented around the train. And this time since the new signalling was in place it was actually do able unlike incidents in the past where trains could not get in to the loop at Sallins

This left a large portion of the fleet south of Kildare, i.e, not able to get to Dublin for the evening rush

The later Cherryville Junction issue was by standards a relatively straightforward issue.

The only operational issue is that no shuttle service was operated from Hazelhatch to Heuston in the evening and from Newbridge to Heuston in the morning, that's the kind of on the go change that should be automatic. It doesn't help everyone but it gets a significant number of passengers moving to destination and can quickly be shifted to operate through to destination Passengers are very sympathetic regarding fatalities, but signal failure and train breakdowns are a reasonably regular occurrence now.:confused:

[Jamie2k9]

Passengers are very sympathetic regarding fatalities, but signal failure and train breakdowns are a reasonably regular occurrence now.:confused:

Wouldn't say breakdowns but whatever signalling we have here is always failing. From living in Europe and commuting twice daily, I never had a signalling problem and this was on partly single line and train crossings were down to perfect timing. Don't know what's different but IE probably went for a cheaper option :rolleyes: or the systems they use over in Europe are better than IE's.

It always tends to be the same areas where they happens, so are they being checked often enough, a lot of the time at Cherryville its the points that are the problem.

[grainne whale]

Wouldn't say breakdowns but whatever signalling we have here is always failing. From living in Europe and commuting twice daily, I never had a signalling problem and this was on partly single line and train crossings were down to perfect timing. Don't know what's different but IE probably went for a cheaper option :rolleyes: or the systems they use over in Europe are better than IE's.

It always tends to be the same areas where they happens, so are they being checked often enough, a lot of the time at Cherryville its the points that are the problem. Possibly lack of investment.:o

[Jamie2k9]

Possibly lack of investment.:o

On the Heuston side its all very new.

The DCC signalling which is on hold has a lot to do with the Dublin area commuter network and the daily problems.

[Mark Gleeson]

The problem in Cherryville is probably a detection fault at the junction, on an extremely warm day steel expands and that can cause things to slight move out of alignment, yesterday was the warmest day in 7 years plus the rail temperature would have hit 50C getting close to the pre stress limits

For comparison there has been massive problems in London in recent days as there infrastructure is old and cannot safely cope with the heat.

Having traveled by rail in 15+ countries none are perfect but Irish Rail would be above average. 2 of 6 trains I took in Switzerland last year were late by more than 5 minutes.

[Jamie2k9]

The problem in Cherryville is probably a detection fault at the junction, on an extremely warm day steel expands and that can cause things to slight move out of alignment, yesterday was the warmest day in 7 years plus the rail temperature would have hit 50C getting close to the pre stress limits

I see 50c is a lot, clearly we won't see this weather for a long time but what sort of procedures are in places where this weather is normal and in some places would be considered cold like Madrid.

Since the Cork route was renewed they don't see to have any of these left

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Expansion_joint,_Hayle.jpg

They have these every few miles on the Galway, Waterford route, is there another way for heat to expand tracks?

[grainne whale]

The problem in Cherryville is probably a detection fault at the junction, on an extremely warm day steel expands and that can cause things to slight move out of alignment, yesterday was the warmest day in 7 years plus the rail temperature would have hit 50C getting close to the pre stress limits

For comparison there has been massive problems in London in recent days as there infrastructure is old and cannot safely cope with the heat.

Having traveled by rail in 15+ countries none are perfect but Irish Rail would be above average. 2 of 6 trains I took in Switzerland last year were late by more than 5 minutes.
Previously a gap was left between rails to cater for this linear expansion, however modern rails do not require this, as coefficient of thermal linear expansion is less. Explaining the delays due to the heat is questionable to say the least.

[laoisfan]

Previously a gap was left between rails to cater for this linear expansion, however modern rails do not require this, as coefficient of thermal linear expansion is less. Explaining the delays due to the heat is questionable to say the least.

Are you sure about this ? I would have thought all modern railways ( from Irish Rail :rolleyes: to the French TGV ) would require some sort of expansion gaps.

[Kilocharlie]

Are you sure about this ? I would have thought all modern railways ( from Irish Rail :rolleyes: to the French TGV ) would require some sort of expansion gaps.

When rails are laid the are stretched so that they are always in tension when the temp is below a certain temperature. Expansion and contraction are absorbed within the rails themselves and movement is restricted by having heavy sleepers and wide bases on the rails. In Ireland the 'certain temp' is about 50C rail temp or 26-27 air temp. Problems happen when rails go from tension to compression when track can lift.

There are no expansion joints in the KPR. They can be found around points and crossovers where its not always possible to tension the rails.

[grainne whale]

Are you sure about this ? I would have thought all modern railways ( from Irish Rail :rolleyes: to the French TGV ) would require some sort of expansion gaps. Apparently not nowadays, that gap was what gave you the 'clickidy click' in years gone by. I can't remember where I picked that up - possibly Nationwide - they featured Irish Rail a number of year ago. There was one statistic I remember as well, the Dublin to Cork track is renewed every few years as they are always doing ongoing maintenance. Pity about the rest of the service, ha, ha.

[ACustomer]

Generally Continuous Welded Rail (CWR) is stressed by heating it before finally clamping it. Given that steel wants to expand/contract as temperature rises/falls the trick is to avoid excessive tensile stress in very cold weather and excessive compressive stress stress in very hot weather. These stresses can lead to rails fracturing in the cold or buckling in the heat.

As Ireland has a temperate climate, these issues are less acute than in countries with a continental climate, with temperatures frequently ranging from -10c to + 40c. A problem on some lines (notably the Nenagh line) is that stressing may not have been done as part of the CWR relay - something which would have catastrophic consequences in central Spain.

[ACustomer]

Renewal of rails in Ireland should not be such a big issue: arguably sleepers, ballast and drainage are more critical. Given the low traffic levels, Irish rail life should be quite long in many places.

There are expansion joints in CWR track: adjacent rail lengths can have about a metre of overlap with the ends cut away at an angle (a bit like point blades, but of course not allowed any lateral separation): this allows the overlapping ends to expand or contract quite a lot.

Sorry, but it's hard to describe this without a diagram.

[grainne whale]

Renewal of rails in Ireland should not be such a big issue: arguably sleepers, ballast and drainage are more critical. Given the low traffic levels, Irish rail life should be quite long in many places.

There are expansion joints in CWR track: adjacent rail lengths can have about a metre of overlap with the ends cut away at an angle (a bit like point blades, but of course not allowed any lateral separation): this allows the overlapping ends to expand or contract quite a lot.

Sorry, but it's hard to describe this without a diagram. Thanks for the information, yep I've often seen the sleepers maked with yellow paint that are to be replaced, especially as I frequently spend a lot of time waiting on platform 4 at Hazelhatch for trains that are running late in the mornings.:mad:

[laoisfan]

Thanks for the lessons guys - it's good to learn something new every now and then.

Still pi$$ed off with Irish Rail :D

Getting the 4:25 home today....checking twitter like mad & their website and praying nothing goes wrong.

[Jamie2k9]

There are no expansion joints in the KPR. They can be found around points and crossovers where its not always possible to tension the rails.

on the fast line on the KRP there is no expansion apart from either end of the project unlike the slow line which has it at most stations with bay platforms.

IMO expansion joints are important and they should be used as well as stressing the rails for different temperatures. Would yesterday of being different if we had them?

Apparently not nowadays, that gap was what gave you the 'clickidy click' in years gone by. I can't remember where I picked that up - possibly Nationwide - they featured Irish Rail a number of year ago. There was one statistic I remember as well, the Dublin to Cork track is renewed every few years as they are always doing ongoing maintenance. Pity about the rest of the service, ha, ha

Some of the IE intercity rail network is close to 20 years old.

What's happening is that lots of patch work is being down and if they had the money I think some other intercity routes would be renewed but the department of transport seems to be busy building roads.

[ACustomer]

By and Large, the Cork and Belfast lines have the oldest track, as they were the first to be renewed with CWR. Also they are the busiest and have 201 class locos on them at high speed, which I assume must add to track wear in a way that ICRs do not (higher axle-loads and unsprung weights).

As the other main intercity routes were renewed relatively recently and are relatively lightly trafficked, they will probably not need very much by way of serious relaying over the next decade: Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Belfast are likely to be the problem areas.

[Jamie2k9]

What do you call recently?

Remember only a few years ago Cork speeds were the same as all routes which had 201's running and as other lines are single they have much more ware, and cork tracks can take heaver trains.

Portarlington to Athlone carries 30+ trains a day on a single track compared to most south of Portlaoise where two lines carry this. At the minute 201's are not used a lot on Cork route, half are ICR's.

[Colm Moore]

Some parts of Cork-Dublin first received CWR in the early 1980s, but I don't know if any of that rail remains. The bulk of the work done in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

While track / rail condition will have an effect on speeds, alignment (primarily curvature, but at higher speeds also vertical curvature) and line features (level crossings, over bridges with limited clearance and poor under bridges / track formation) will have greater implications.

[Kilocharlie]

Thanks Mark.

Well I've filled out the Southern & Western refund claim form. Seeing as I am an annual ticket holder (valid until Jan 2014) I've included a photocopy of the annual pass.

Yesterday evening IR managers were handing out letters of apology and an offer by way of compensation for season ticket holders of a 3-day unlimited Gathering ticket.

They also promised to review procedures and the supply of information to passengers when incidents like these occur.

[Jamie2k9]

They also promised to review procedures and the supply of information to passengers when incidents like these occur.

How many times have we heard that before.

I see no reason why 60 minutes to clear the machine, it failed before 15.00, immediate action would be dispatch a locomotive from Heuston, use single line out of Nass, Inbound line wouldn't of being overly busy and then move the machine to New bridge or Kildare or even return to the loop in Nass. This absolute bulls**t that maintenance staff are on site trying to fix the fault is just causing more problems and getting very little productive done until they realize it can't be fixed. If something fails in the middle of nowhere the probability of it being fixed there and then is very slim.

Over the while we have had:
10.00 to Cork failure at Newbridge, 2 hours to clear.
Westport train failure which too around 3 hours to get another 22k to push it to Newbridge.
Track machine fail south of Kildare which took 3 hours+ to use a locomotive sitting in Kildare to move it.

The management have the brass neck to say we will review procedures. This just blatant lies as they have being saying this for years. DO they think passengers are mugs. This will happen again and the 3 hour and 4 hour delays will not change.