Fare Calculator 2013

[Mark Gleeson]

New version available for fares change December 1st 2012

http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/fare_calc_2013.php

While still a work in progress it should now accurately determine the fare for intercity journeys nationwide. A few stations are not available currently mainly some WRC and KRP stations due need to confirm distances and locations

It does obey most of Irish Rail's strange rules, so Athlone Mullingar is still quoted via Moate (but includes Luas transfer), Cork and Kerry to Limerick always go via Croom

It can not handle Rosslare to Cork due to Irish Rail seemingly having built a secret railway from Dungarvan to Youghal, so until we have some numbers on this mystery its going to charge the logical fare by true rail distance

[James Howard]

Does this Athlone - Mullingar trick mean that you could get away with buying this and travelling from Athlone to Dublin this way for a considerable discount?

[Mark Gleeson]

Sure does, still need to check what the station level machines do, but online this is what Irish Rail quote and it maps to the correct fare for the distance. Note we have a bit of problem, booking office fare Limerick Ballybrophy goes via Limerick Junction, but the TVM goes via Nenagh (logically the shorter route) and charges less.

Its a legit fare and since you change at Connolly and Heuston (Luas is actually included on the ticket!) its hard to catch you as break of journey is allowed*

We are working on adding switches so you can
1) Run the fare calc in Irish Rail quirks mode (default)
2) Logical shortest possible rail route
3) Enable/disable the future distance zone rules (this new zone is indicated in results currently)

When we get the data we will add the Northern Irish network in as a well for journeys originating in the Republic

We in theory now can generate the any to any fares matrix thanks to a bit of graph theory we can do in a fraction of second what currently takes Irish Rail weeks to do manually if they had to redo the system "single-source shortest path problem for a graph with nonnegative edge path costs, producing a shortest path tree." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dijkstra%27s_algorithm

* Note RUI never condones fare evasion or breach of T&C's however this is more like tax avoidance as distinct from tax evasion, grey

[Thomas Ralph]

What is the story with using a Cork/Rosslare ticket to travel to Heuston?

[Mark Gleeson]

Same thing however on a cost basis it doesn't really offer a saving which justifies its use

[Padna]

If travelling from Dundalk to Clonsilla it seems to be cheaper to buy 2 separate tickets: (1) from Dundalk to Balbriggan and (2) from Balbriggan to Clonsilla. I presume this is allowed if you take a commuter service from Dundalk (which stops in Balbriggan), but is it allowed if you take an Enterprise service from Dundalk (which does not stop in Balbriggan)?

[Mark Gleeson]

Two tickets are advised for that journey

For legal reasons the journey must be two different journeys as one, so Dundalk - Connolly and then Connolly Clonsilla.

If the train stops in Balbriggan in theory you can split the ticket there but are then in breech of rebooking on same train

[Thomas Ralph]

You will probably get away with it in practice but it is against the rules whether or not the train calls at Balbriggan.

[Mark Gleeson]

All stations on the network now added.

http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/fare_calc_2013.php

At this point if we quote the wrong fare, its more likely a case of Irish Rail having its numbers wrong or hiding some key fare rules than an oversight on our part.

Irish Rail have a hardcoded table storing all the distances and fare codes, we know that some of those distances don't match the actual distances.

Quirks
1. Charleville Limerick via Croom available for all services
2. Athlone to Mullingar via Moate ONLY if the origin and destination are Athlone and Mullingar
3. Rosslare Strand/Europort routing via Wellington Bridge available only if origin or destination is Rosslare Strand/Europort
4. Waterford Mallow via Fermoy available for all services

[Destructix]

Welcome to the Rail Users Ireland Fare Calculator!

This version is the December 1st 2012 fare revision

Station From: Thurles
Station To: Clonmel
The journey distance is: 76.93km, fare zone G2 future zone E

Adult Child Student 16-25 Family
Single €16.50 €8.00 €12.00 €12.50
Open Return €21.00 €10.50 €17.20 €18.00 €65.00
Day Return €17.50 €8.50 €39.50
Monthly €290.00
Annual €2,900.00

Day return fare is €29.70 from the booking office in Thurles

As RUI used the fare matrix which Iarnród Éireann submitted to the NTA are IÉ incorrectly charging customers?

[Mark Gleeson]

Our calculation is based on

Economy 2 category
Via Limerick Junc

As per the rules, express class fares are not charged on journeys to/from branch line routes.

29.70 is express category
Via Limerick Junc

[ACustomer]

In many cases fares are based on a more direct route via lines which have been closed, e.g. Limerick-Cork via Croom and Waterford-Cork via Fermoy. Why is this not the case for Thurles-Clonmel?

The journey via Limerick Junction is 77kms , but via the now-closed route (i.e. via Fethard) it would have been about 40kms. A look at the map would make it obvious that charging for nearly twice the direct distance is a sure way of deterring any business.

The road between Clonmel and Thurles is pretty awful, so a train Journey via the Junction is not too bad by comparison, but charging for nearly twice the direct distance is a sign of plain incompetence (yet again!)

[Mark Gleeson]

The fare charged at the booking office is valid for the distance category but is taken from the wrong fare matrix. The ticket machine in Thurles is using the default matrix and not the discounted economy 2 fare.

This could be down to
1. Machine programmed wrong
2. Clerk using the express ticket code and not the econ 2 code when issuing

Check the TVM, it tends to be more accurate

All routings from the south Tipperary line are via Waterford or Limerick Junction

The fare calculator on the RUI site reflects all non standard routings in use by Irish Rail at this time

The Waterford - Mallow via Fermoy routing was deleted without notice by Irish Rail in December 2012, our results reflect this after asking Irish Rail management to confirm the routing rules. We can add/remove a station or routing in a few seconds, while Irish Rail have to manually edit a huge text file.

See http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showpost.php?p=70284&postcount=9

[ACustomer]

Deleting Waterford-Mallow via Fermoy probably added a little over 20% to the mileage used for fare calculation (and for Waterford-Cork a smaller proportion). But the "official" mileage for Thurles-Clonmel is so grossly out of line with geographical reality that not allowing for it make no sense.

It may be policy but it's still a bit of a business nonsense.

[Traincustomer]

Could be wrong on this but one possible explanation is based on the understanding that one of the Thurles-Clonmel bus routes (http://www.bkavcoaches.com/html/time_thurles.html) is de facto a rail replacement service.

Perhaps the reason for the non-availability of a fare based on the closed route distance (43.85kms./27 1/4 miles) is to prevent abstraction of business from the bus service.

There may be some such condition dating back to the rail closure, which incidentally this coming September will be 50 years ago.

[ACustomer]

Traincustomer: you may be right, but I thought that Irish Rail and Bus Eireann competed for business. I make no comment on the desirability or otherwise of this.

I note that your link appears to be to a private bus operator. In that case, why would Irish Rail deliberately try to prevent business from being diverted to a rival?

The more you look at it the less you see of even the rudiments of business sense.

[Traincustomer]

My view is that it is just a historic situation dating back to CIÉ days and that Irish Rail have had no hand in it.

Despite the Clonmel-Thurles bus route being operated by a private bus company it had its own table in CIÉ bus and rail timetables in the 70s and into the early 80s. The bus service integrated with Dublin trains at Thurles station in both directions and the timetable showed this.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Traincustomer: you may be right, but I thought that Irish Rail and Bus Eireann competed for business. I make no comment on the desirability or otherwise of this.

I note that your link appears to be to a private bus operator. In that case, why would Irish Rail deliberately try to prevent business from being diverted to a rival?

The more you look at it the less you see of even the rudiments of business sense.


CIE gave up completly on Thurles a couple of years back, the last route being Cork-Athlone was withdrawn in 2010 or thereabouts.

before that there were some attempts to divert the Dublin-Cork service into and out of Thurles but it didnt work. Thurles and Templemore had been well served oner the years train wise on a mainline, and Thurles/Templemore are off the beaten track from the main Dublin/Limerick/Cork roads

[Mark Gleeson]

Just past 8500 queries to the fare calculator this year

Hansfield has been added and so has Oranmore

We are still in discussions with Irish Rail concerning the fares charged off certain Tipperary branch line stations, these should be economy two fares. The RUI results are correct

[joey]

Why was I unable to purchase a return ticket from a TVM at Ashtown for a return trip to Drogheda???

But could buy a return ticket to say Boyle, Carrick on Shannon, Donabate etc etc

Means buying a return to Connolly and then making tracks into Connolly station to buy another return to Drogheda

And then this on the 14.51 to Drogheda
http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4861&p=116&n=237

And it's only a four car set....
Mind boggling, the attempt to attract custom and a four set is sent to do this service, it's jammed!

[Mark Gleeson]

Buying two tickets would be the cheapest option for the journey under most cases

[joey]

Buying two tickets would be the cheapest option for the journey under most cases

Why would I not able to buy an all I one ticket?

[Colm Moore]

Why would I not able to buy an all I one ticket?The system can't handle it. 200 origin stations and 200 destination stations, by even 10 ticket types (adult single, return, etc. there are lots more) is 400,000 unique tickets.

They are looking at a new ticketing system.

[Thomas Ralph]

Buying a through ticket would probably kick the whole journey onto the expensive intercity price matrix and you would pay more than doing it on split tickets.

[comcor]

I'm not sure that's an excuse for not having the ticket available to buy. I've seen Dutch TVMs allow you to buy tickets to anywhere in that country (plus many Belgian, German and French stations).

It's just a question of whether you want to centralize the fare calculations (potentially losing the ability to issue tickets if the TVM loses connectivity [although that may be a problem for CC purchases anyway]) or if you want to replicate the database out to the TVMs with the extra storage required.

[dowlingm]

Buying a through ticket would probably kick the whole journey onto the expensive intercity price matrix and you would pay more than doing it on split tickets.A bug, not a feature.

[joey]

If a through ticket is not available to purchase from the TVM surely this leaves the oppurtunist the chance to evade fares.