2013 Heuston & Regional Draft Timetable

[Jamie2k9]

Up on website. Posting from mobile so cant post link

[finnyus]

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4732&p=116&n=237

[Mark Gleeson]

Major changes

Portlaoise - Dublin all stops replaces Dublin Kildare

Dublin Cork is now 2:35 for most service.

Nenagh service revert to former timetable more or less.

[longword]

Neatly rules out rail as an option for someone leaving a Park West office at 17:30

[Jamie2k9]

Why restore the 19.20 from Cork, it was dropped due to low demand a few years ago and anyone who travels on the 18.20 or 20.20 knows they carry very few passengers.

Glad about the good reduction in Waterford services stopping at Newbridge but disappointed that no effort has being made to have a 09.00 service to Heuston.

[jacko]

generally excellent

there is no need for a 06.00 Cobh Cork.

If they put on a 06.30 service it would get people to the 07.00 Cork Heuston

Also good to see that the last sunday cork-cobh has gone from 22.0 to 22.30

Could do with the 22.30 weekday to Cobh moving back to 23.00 as the demand is there

[Mark Gleeson]

Why restore the 19.20 from Cork, it was dropped due to low demand a few years ago and anyone who travels on the 18.20 or 20.20 knows they carry very few passengers.


Balancing move as there has to be an equal number of services in both directions

[comcor]

I assume that the 19:20 Cork-Dublin is because they'd have a set out of position, now that the 05:05 is no more. Most likely there's less of a loss to be made at 19:20. Seeing that it fits in between services, it doesn't need any additional labour and a lot of people working between 5am and 6am will no longer be needed.

Agreed about the 06:00 from Cobh. It should be an 06:30. This is feedback worth giving.

Off peak connections between Cork and Kerry have become a bit of a mess, but peak ones look a bit better, so it's a small price to pay for the faster times to Dublin.

[Thomas J Stamp]

no more alan kelly express. the fact that the 1800 stop at brophy has been kept reflects the reality that 95% of the passengers getting off there just hopped into their cars.

I might do another two or three trips on the AKE. Still the usual 4-5 others every time on the branch.

[plant43]

Minor nitpick: The 1630 to Galway no longer stops in Newbridge, however the 1635 to Waterford seems to have been moved to 1640 but retains it's Hazelhatch/Sallins stops. This is in addition to the 1610 being moved to 1620.

[eoinmadden]

The last train from Galway to Dublin will now be 19:15, rather than 18:05, which is a big improvement. I don't think in the history of CIE they ever ran a train that late from Galway to Dublin.

The 18:05 departure from Galway will become 18:10.

[Thomas Ralph]

Why restore the 19.20 from Cork, it was dropped due to low demand a few years ago and anyone who travels on the 18.20 or 20.20 knows they carry very few passengers.

Glad about the good reduction in Waterford services stopping at Newbridge but disappointed that no effort has being made to have a 09.00 service to Heuston.

There are no passengers whatsoever on any 1820 or 2020 Cork-Heuston servies to my knowledge :cool:

[jacko]

no more alan kelly express. the fact that the 1800 stop at brophy has been kept reflects the reality that 95% of the passengers getting off there just hopped into their cars.

I might do another two or three trips on the AKE. Still the usual 4-5 others every time on the branch.

In fairness to AK the people of Nenagh were given it for a year and told to use it or lose it !

[Mark Gleeson]

Well we all knew from the start it wouldn't work. It was to be a 6 month trial but its going to struggle on for 9 months

The Nenagh folks are already trying the usual they didn't try, fares, promotion, etc etc excuses. I don't think there is anyone in North Tipp who didn't know and at 9.99 online you can't really complain


130k wasted

[Jamie2k9]

Having looked at Waterford timetable, I ask upgrade line speed to 100mph as its not showing any real improvment in the timetable. The amount of extra time slotted into each journey is unreal and worse than ever.

[Kilocharlie]

Having looked at Waterford timetable, I ask upgrade line speed to 100mph as its not showing any real improvment in the timetable. The amount of extra time slotted into each journey is unreal and worse than ever.

Now: 0600, Arr 0820 - 2:20
New: 0605, Arr 0811 - 2:06

Change: 14 mins faster

[Jamie2k9]

Now: 0600, Arr 0820 - 2:20
New: 0605, Arr 0811 - 2:06

Change: 14 mins faster

Over all any time saved is between Newbridge-Heuston. They expect the train 3 minutes in Kilkenny. Kilkenny staff are unable to get a train to depart on time and if they can't do it in 4 or 5 then how wil they in 3. Its some stations have increased journey times. Very poor overall.

[Jamie2k9]

It does not take 15 mintues between Thomastwon-Kilkenny. It can be done in 12-13 but of course all services are scheduled to have 15 minute journey times. This is part of the line cleared for 100mph. So average times in Kilkenny will be 7 or 8 minutes.

It takes 15 minutes between Kilkenny-Muine Bheag but most down services are scheduled for 17-20.

It takes 10 minutes between Muine Bheag-Carlow yet most services are scheduled for 12 or 13.

It takes 10 minutes (9.40 to be exact) between Carlow-Athy but most services are timed to take 12 or 13.

The 06.05 is the only service with any change in times between Cherryvile-Waterford.

Kildare-Athy also takes 16 minutes but some services take 17-20 minutes.

The 07.10 could easily do it in 1h45m

Need I go on?

[dowlingm]

If you're sprinting from passing loop to passing loop there's only so much time to be made up.

[m3parkway]

Great to see more use of the Kildare Route project infrastructure. 11 over takings heading out of Heuston between Commuter services to Portlaoise/Newbridge and Intercity services to Galway, Limerick and Cork. The Portlaoise services at 16:25 and 17:25 are both overtaken twice by Galway and Limerick services. Happy to see less stops on Intercity services thanks to the extension of the Kildare Commuter to Portloaise. Overall very happy with the new timetable. :)

[Jamie2k9]

If you're sprinting from passing loop to passing loop there's only so much time to be made up.

As with most lines

Things should of being improved more. Take the 17.35 down its realy only haveing 4 minutes dropped as it was always in Waterford arond 10 minutes early. 18.35 only seeing 2 mins cut it always arrived 5 minutes early in Waterford. 16.35 being moved 5 minutes but when at 16.35 it was in Waterford around 18.53 with 4 min stop in Kildare, 4 min in Athy, 3 extra in Kilkenny. (not waiting on other trains BTW)

[neoncircles]

I was under the impression some Limk-Dub services would be reintroduced to cut down on stops for Cork trains- though it would seem not!

[ACustomer]

It would be foolish to frame timetables where trains had to acheve absolute maximum performance in every section, ( no allowance for TSRs or the occasional need to use the wheelchair ramps) so I don't agree with the complaints about the Waterford line times. From my experience they are reasonably tight: remember that the advantage from 100mph v 80mph over a 10 to 12 mile section is not goimg to be very much.

Waterford -Dublin is 110 miles of which nearly 80 is on single track. Dublin-Belfast is 113 miles, virtually all double track. Many Waterford trains are timed at 2.10 or 2.15 for 6 or 7 stops; Belfast trains usually take 2.10 or 2.15for 4 or 5 stops. Given the size of the cities involved, I know which route needs to be shaken uop.

[Jamie2k9]

Some of the times I have posted currently have TSR in place ie Thomastown-Kilkenny and Kilkenny-Muine Bheag. TSR are most common between Kilkenny-Waterford and are very rare after Laivstwon North.

Even if they allow for extra time the 7-8 minutes stopped in Kilkenny is not acceptable.

Can't compare Belfast with Waterford mainly becasue of the congestion at either city.

From my experience they are reasonably tight:

What service do you travel on most as a few are tight but most are not.

[Destructix]

www.tippfm.com tomorrow 10am Tipp Today with Seamus Martin I bet my hair on it Virginia O'Dowd will be on it moaning about the loss of the Dublin service. They are lucky they just didn't close the line.

[Mark Gleeson]

Virginia won't be on, but there will be moaning

[dowlingm]

to be honest, some of the moaning would be justified. The morning commuter still leaves Nenagh rather than Roscrea but the evening train did not revert to a commuter friendly time for either town. Putting the line out of its misery would have been kinder to the area and to IE finances.

Can anyone see anything headline worthy here? It seems all nibbling at the edges stuff. I was hoping that people with access to the working timetable and so on could come up with at least one striking innovation.

Will we see a press release from IE announcing that now you can commuter from Carrick on Suir to Tipperary town... sort of... because that's the best they can think of?

[laoisfan]

Neatly rules out rail as an option for someone leaving a Park West office at 17:30

Agreed - I commute from Ballybrophy to Park West and generally speaking Park West in the evenings is not great.

[laoisfan]

Well we all knew from the start it wouldn't work. It was to be a 6 month trial but its going to struggle on for 9 months

The Nenagh folks are already trying the usual they didn't try, fares, promotion, etc etc excuses. I don't think there is anyone in North Tipp who didn't know and at 9.99 online you can't really complain


130k wasted

Us folks at Ballybrophy reckon Irish Rail should try running it the opposite way instead i.e. Ballybrophy to Limerick via Roscrea, etc etc.

[Mark Gleeson]

Thats always been our view too, Limerick should be the focus, Nenagh Limerick might have a chance

Problem is the line form Nenagh to Ballybrophy is in seriously poor condition and I'd imagine the civil engineer will be the fall guy who calls a halt to service, neatly avoids the minister as safety will always override commercial and politics

[laoisfan]

Thats always been our view too, Limerick should be the focus, Nenagh Limerick might have a chance

Problem is the line form Nenagh to Ballybrophy is in seriously poor condition and I'd imagine the civil engineer will be the fall guy who calls a halt to service, neatly avoids the minister as safety will always override commercial and politics

The problem as I see it Mark is that nearly all the services are aimed towards Dublin, which I have no problem with in general. Vast majority of people commute towards there so fair enough.

However, look at Limerick, Cork as examples ( as I commute from Ballybrophy so I am biased ;) ) and there is not one service which would get me down to either place for around 8:00-8:30am in the morning. I would even be willing to drive to either Templemore-Thurles for option to get train to Cork or Templemore-Thurles-Roscrea for Limerick train.

Edit. Commuters from Ballybrophy-Templemore-Thurles are ideally placed to commute to Limerick, Cork & Dublin.

[Mark Gleeson]

There was a morning and evening commuter option Nenagh Limerick

Very poorly subscribed to the point in the evening that the guard would head count at Birdhill and if no one aboard they would simply head back to Limerick avoiding the trek to Nenagh

[Destructix]

Talking to one of the staff in Colbert last week. He was saying they are sure the Ballybrophy to Roscrea side of the line will be mothballed soon.

[dowlingm]

Could leave Nenagh in a similar position to Ennis as was before the Athenry line was reinstated.

[2200DMU]

16.50 Waterford to Dublin will no longer operate

I'm sure Irish Rails excuse for dropping it because of low demand.

I wonder does 25 minutes stopped at stations waiting for train corssings have anything to do with it. 10 in Muine Bheag, 5 in Carlow, 10 in Athy.

It puts an end to daily students using the services from Carlow to Kildare, Athy. 18.15 departure from Carlow was ideal.

If it was moved to 16.20 ex Waterford (17.30 ex Carlow) it would be of real benefit to people.

As posted above every servce will contuine to stop in stations for 3 or 4 minutes as IR have done nothing to address this.

18.05 on Sundays has being arriving in between 20.15-20.20 for the last year so where is the shorter journey times coming from. Notice how they allow an extra 5 minutes to make sure it arrives on time, not on any other Sunday service.

If the 09.10 was going in the other direction there would be plenty of demand but they pick an easy target to drop, good for bid if they cut over the west. Only good news for Waterford line is the DFS is to resume after being dropping in July.

I prodict a revised timetable will take affect by July 2013, Galway will not fill all the evening services in a million years, expect the 19.20 from Cork to go again. Cork schedule will not be able to run to 2h35m ever unless ICR take over.

I wonder how much of a handout CIE will get on Wednesday.

[Jamie2k9]

Didn't notice the extra 5 mins allowd.forthe 18.05. We left Newbridge at 19.58 tonight and were stopped on platform 2 at 20.19. The restriction outside Heuston was lifted last week.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Talking to one of the staff in Colbert last week. He was saying they are sure the Ballybrophy to Roscrea side of the line will be mothballed soon.

the fact that they left the eveng departure from limerick as it is should tell you all you need to know. perhaps NRP will lobby on it, I will anyway.

The problem as I see it Mark is that nearly all the services are aimed towards Dublin, which I have no problem with in general. Vast majority of people commute towards there so fair enough.

However, look at Limerick, Cork as examples ( as I commute from Ballybrophy so I am biased ;) ) and there is not one service which would get me down to either place for around 8:00-8:30am in the morning. I would even be willing to drive to either Templemore-Thurles for option to get train to Cork or Templemore-Thurles-Roscrea for Limerick train.

Edit. Commuters from Ballybrophy-Templemore-Thurles are ideally placed to commute to Limerick, Cork & Dublin.

There is a limerick railcar which does a commuter service in the morning from thurles. In theory it could be pulled back to BB or even Portlaoise. Not sure what the demand will be.

BTW, it is only in the last two weeks that Irish Rail have bothered to hand out posters to local shops here in Roscrea advertising the morning service and the prices. You couldnt make it up.

[dowlingm]

There is a limerick railcar which does a commuter service in the morning from thurles. In theory it could be pulled back to BB or even Portlaoise.If started from BB or certainly PL then surely that train would deadhead from LTC rather than Limerick as I think the current one does, unless something changed? That would then have to be resolved since you have one fewer train overnighting in Limerick.

The logical extension of a dispatch-from-Portlaoise position would be to dispatch it from Heuston just ahead of the 0625 stopping service.

Heuston dep 0620
Portlaoise dep 0702
Ballybrophy dep 0717
Thurles arr 0735
Thurles dep 0740 (existing diagram as per 2013 draft)
L Jct dep 0807
Limerick arr 0835

Now you have a business service and a commuter service in one train.

BTW, it is only in the last two weeks that Irish Rail have bothered to hand out posters to local shops here in Roscrea advertising the morning service and the prices. You couldnt make it up.Definitely one of those times you wish IE was FOIable to see who asked for that to happen.

[Destructix]

Just noticed Clonmel will lose one service :O

Suppose I only did read Dublin-Cork/Limerick the other day.

At the moment

Limerick Junction - Waterford
08:55
13:55
18:50

Waterford - Limerick Junction
06:40
11:40
16:40

New Timetable if implemented

Limerick Junction - Waterford
09:45
18:50

Waterford - Limerick Junction
07:20
16:25

Starting to think they want this line to fail to cover losses on the WRC and Nenagh lines.

[dowlingm]

Follows a pattern of cutting midday trains, plus presumably a move to a single daily split shift. It's just a pity a bone wasn't thrown in the form of extending that shift pattern to Sunday to facilitate GAA and student travel.

[Thomas J Stamp]

If started from BB or certainly PL then surely that train would deadhead from LTC rather than Limerick as I think the current one does, unless something changed? That would then have to be resolved since you have one fewer train overnighting in Limerick.

The logical extension of a dispatch-from-Portlaoise position would be to dispatch it from Heuston just ahead of the 0625 stopping service.

Heuston dep 0620
Portlaoise dep 0702
Ballybrophy dep 0717
Thurles arr 0735
Thurles dep 0740 (existing diagram as per 2013 draft)
L Jct dep 0807
Limerick arr 0835

Now you have a business service and a commuter service in one train.

Definitely one of those times you wish IE was FOIable to see who asked for that to happen.

only thing is that the thurles commuter train is a 28k and not a 22k so couldnt be from LTC, as in theory it is a waste of a intercity railcar.

that said, how does this new timetable utilise the 22k fleet? I think with the extra services dotted about that the 22k fleet will now be maxed out.

we will have 22k everywhere out of heuston (same as now, ok but more of them) and 28k running out of cork and limerick.

is there any displacement of 29k or are the 22k being used to bolster as opposed to replace those services connolly side?

[dowlingm]

Well, the two last sets have yet to come on board and the Nenagh 22K is no longer required so maybe there's scope to find one. I think if you're looking at extending north of Thurles it would be madness not to use equipment that can use the trackage while at the same time extending the deadhead. Assuming that a 22K could shave off a couple of minutes from the Thurles-Limerick Junction-Limerick schedule compared to the 28 then you could add a Templemore stop to that outlined in my previous post.

There might be some implications once you hit Limerick since it looks like that equipment may link onto an Ennis commuter rather than a Galway intercity but as usual where there's a will there's a way.

[Jamie2k9]

Shortage of ICR's is not a problem it just the current way they are rostered that can case a shortage of sorts.

Only issue that may come with ICR in the future is how many Cork services they may take over if any. As far as I know one ICR is still currently replacing a Mark 4 set weather that will change in Jan is the question as the services being replaced by ICR seres most stops to Cork and with this reducing Jan it could change.

[dowlingm]

The problem with the Mk4 is that IE will ONLY use them Dublin-Cork, so then if they exceed capacity they are parked and 22Ks used where they could be elsewhere. Maybe some thought should be given to deploying one or more on peak services elsewhere. Given the looming DD refurb one might even consider making a difficulty into an opportunity, with a slight rewiring to the DVTs.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Well, the two last sets have yet to come on board and the Nenagh 22K is no longer required so maybe there's scope to find one. I think if you're looking at extending north of Thurles it would be madness not to use equipment that can use the trackage while at the same time extending the deadhead. Assuming that a 22K could shave off a couple of minutes from the Thurles-Limerick Junction-Limerick schedule compared to the 28 then you could add a Templemore stop to that outlined in my previous post.

There might be some implications once you hit Limerick since it looks like that equipment may link onto an Ennis commuter rather than a Galway intercity but as usual where there's a will there's a way.

i think the 22k taken from limerick is going to galway/westport/athlone

Shortage of ICR's is not a problem it just the current way they are rostered that can case a shortage of sorts.

Only issue that may come with ICR in the future is how many Cork services they may take over if any. As far as I know one ICR is still currently replacing a Mark 4 set weather that will change in Jan is the question as the services being replaced by ICR seres most stops to Cork and with this reducing Jan it could change.

I dont think this will happen, as the idea is that the Cork Route is a brand, and it is only with cost cutting that they use 22ks. this may stop now with the new schedule.

The problem with the Mk4 is that IE will ONLY use them Dublin-Cork, so then if they exceed capacity they are parked and 22Ks used where they could be elsewhere. Maybe some thought should be given to deploying one or more on peak services elsewhere. Given the looming DD refurb one might even consider making a difficulty into an opportunity, with a slight rewiring to the DVTs.

I believe that the 22k's only are used on predictably low usage services, or in dire emergencies.

[Jamie2k9]

I don't think this will happen, as the idea is that the Cork Route is a brand, and it is only with cost cutting that they use 22ks. this may stop now with the new schedule.

I think it will happen, it just depends how IE justify demand for a Cork service to be a Mark 4. I was on the 14.00 to Cork and currently on the 18.30 and a 3 car set could operate the service with no capacity problems.

2h35m for most services I also think this is being a little to optimistic.

[Mark Gleeson]

2:35 with 4 stops is easy, even before all the work at Limerick Junction, Ballybrophy, Lisduff and Portalington and the extra 40-50 miles of 100mph, 2:30 for 4 stops was doable.

[Inniskeen]

I think it will happen, it just depends how IE justify demand for a Cork service to be a Mark 4. I was on the 14.00 to Cork and currently on the 18.30 and a 3 car set could operate the service with no capacity problems.

2h35m for most services I also think this is being a little to optimistic.

From my experience the bulk of the Cork service could be operated with 3 car ICRs apart. Busiest services appear to be morning and mid-morning inbound to Dublin and afternoon and early evening outbound. Even on the busier services it it relatively rare for loadings to exceed the 200 mark other than perhaps on a Friday [mainly Kerry traffic] or when there is a special event attracting additional traffic. A four car ICR would be entirely adequate for most services especially with the reduced stopping patterns in the new TT.

[Thomas Ralph]

Which four-car ICR do you have in mind?

[Colm Moore]

From my experience the bulk of the Cork service could be operated with 3 car ICRs apart. Busiest services appear to be morning and mid-morning inbound to Dublin and afternoon and early evening outbound. Even on the busier services it it relatively rare for loadings to exceed the 200 mark other than perhaps on a Friday [mainly Kerry traffic] or when there is a special event attracting additional traffic. A four car ICR would be entirely adequate for most services especially with the reduced stopping patterns in the new TT.Cork-Dublin services can be very tidal, depending on whether their is a connection with Tralee (every second train) and Limerick trains (most trains, except at rush hour).

[Thomas J Stamp]

the notion that IE are going to wholescale scrap/mothball their almost new mark 4 fleet and replace them with a vastly inferior product in the form of the 22k is nuts.

there is also the fact that there is not a massive amount of difference between a 6-car ICR and a mark 4 set when it comes to the ecomonics of the situation. They will not run a three car as that means no city gold and no catering apart from the trolly, which is not going to happen on a train that not only serves the two biggest cities but also on each service serves a branch to Kerry or Limerick.

And, as Thomas points out, you cant get a 4 car ICR. A few weeks ago someone on here was talking about a 4 car Mark4 as well. Fantasy island stuff.

Lets keep this real.

[Thomas Ralph]

Indeed, let's keep the Crayolas in the box.

[comcor]

Additionally, you have to remember that the 13:30 from Cork operates the 17:00 from Dublin, which operates the 20:30 from Cork and while you may get away with ICRs on the two ex-Cork services, you wouldn't on the 17:00.

[Jamie2k9]

A few weeks ago someone on here was talking about a 4 car Mark4 as well. Fantasy island stuff.


What was ment by the poster is that one of the Mark 4 sets has 6 coaches and not 7 like the rest. Citygold, Dinning Car and 4 Standard. Calculations on the number of seats per week were being made assuming all sets had 7.

Additionally, you have to remember that the 13:30 from Cork operates the 17:00 from Dublin, which operates the 20:30 from Cork and while you may get away with ICRs on the two ex-Cork services, you wouldn't on the 17:00.

It dosn't mean some servces can't be dropped to 3 car ICR's. The 12.30 when an ICR arrives in on a different platform and a Mark 4 is positioned to 5 to operate the 16.00

Cork trains will be split over two platforms at Heuston next year.

[longword]

0900 Heuston to Cork was a 3 car ICR Thursday morning, looked like plenty of seats empty when it left. I don't think that's the first time I've seen a 3 car set on that service, certainly not the first ICR. Seems to use an ICR as often as not.

[Mark Gleeson]

Fri/Sat there are no ICR's in use on Dublin Cork

[Inniskeen]

Which four-car ICR do you have in mind?

A hypothetical one - 3 car ICR is a little too small for a few of the Cork services, six-car ICR way too big 95% of the time. IR certainly had plans to re-configure the ICR fleet although this idea may well have been abandoned.

As regards abandoning the MK4 fleet, why would this be different from mothballing an arguably superior Mk3 fleet barely half way through it's life cycle.

[Mark Gleeson]

As regards abandoning the MK4 fleet, why would this be different from mothballing an arguably superior Mk3 fleet barely half way through it's life cycle.

Give a passenger a choice between a Mk3 and Mk4, you won't find many takers for the Mk3

[Jamie2k9]

Noticed that IE are still keeping the 19.05 connection to Nenagh in the new year. Yesterday there was 3 passengers on the connection from BallyB of which two were traveling for free. Is the connection off the 17.05 to Tralee better used?

[Thomas J Stamp]

A hypothetical one - 3 car ICR is a little too small for a few of the Cork services, six-car ICR way too big 95% of the time. IR certainly had plans to re-configure the ICR fleet although this idea may well have been abandoned.

As regards abandoning the MK4 fleet, why would this be different from mothballing an arguably superior Mk3 fleet barely half way through it's life cycle.

not just hypotectical, but as far as i am aware impossible, as you cant join up a 22k in that way. also, you are buggering up the diagram of another set.

as for mothballing the mark4 - its a heavily marketed branded product, same as enterprise. it is occasionally replaced out of neccessity like the DD sets, but thats all. it is also a third of the age that the mark3 were oin their withdrawal, and the mark3 was identified badly by the potential customer as it was the same on the outside as mark2d and cravens. See the Sligo saga for a prime example.

Also, if you look at the pictures of the interior of the mark3's they do, to todays eyes, look as dated as an edition of smash hits from 1988.

Noticed that IE are still keeping the 19.05 connection to Nenagh in the new year. Yesterday there was 3 passengers on the connection from BallyB of which two were traveling for free. Is the connection off the 17.05 to Tralee better used?

in my experiance the loadings from the 17.05 were slightly better (as in four-six) but there was a large load who just got into their cars and drove off. Not surprising when it is actually quicker to drive to roscrea (and indeed any other stop) from ballybrophy station than using the train.

That 18.10-18.20 ish connection was lacking in that it initially had to dwell in Roscrea to allow the 19.05 get clearance somewhere along the line, which was amazingly annoying. I am talking of 15-20 min dwells here. In the end they got it to hang around around Brophy till the cork train came and went, which in effect ment that you had two trains within 45 mins of each other departing.

In the end the tralee train (which used to stop first in templemore) will still have a large following as it leaves at a nice time and gets in for 6pm and you can drive home from it to arrive at a reasonable hour.

[Inniskeen]

Give a passenger a choice between a Mk3 and Mk4, you won't find many takers for the Mk3

The Mk4 is not a major leap forward on the Mk3, some of the UK Mk3 re-furbishments are way ahead of the Mk4s.

[Alan French]

I'm sending in some responses to the timetable consultation. Before I reply for the Westport line, can anyone work out how the trains are likely to be rostered? There are 5 trains a day from Westport but only 4 the other way. Presumably the new 09.45 from Westport returns attached to either the 14.45 or the 18.15 from Dublin. If there is any empty running, it should be opened up to passegers.
But what about the 09.08 Athlone-Westport? Where does it fit in? In my workplace there are often meetings and conferences in Tullamore, starting at 09.30 or 10.00. Those coming from Dublin used to find the 08.25 train useful for this, before it was withdrawn in 2009.
Instead of the proposed 09.08 Athlone-Westport, I reckon it should be possible to run a train at 08.10 from Dublin to Westport, serving Tullamore about 09.10 and Athlone about 09.35. Crossings would be at Geashill, Clara (where it can't stop) and Ballyhaunis (instead of Claremorris). Does this look practical?
The new 17.20 from Galway is welcome; that 3-hour gap was always a nuisance. It is also suits the events at Tullamore described above; it was always a rush to get to the station for 16.33 or else wait for 3 hours.

[Jamie2k9]

14.45 will be a 6 peice and will operate 05.15 and 09.45 as a 3 peice with option to operate 09.45 as a 6 peice on Saturdays.

Why run a seperate Galway and Westport servicr within 30 minutes in the mornings serving same stops. No demand. At Athlone the 17.10 service stays overnight AFAIK.

[Alan French]

I have sent the following comments to IR on their website.
Cork line:
Good to see the improved journey times, and better use being made of the four tracks at the Dublin end. I suggest the following extra stops to improve connections:
13.00 Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 11.30 from Galway.
21.00 Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 18.15 from Westport and the 19.15 from Galway.
11.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Portarlington to connect with the 12.45 Dublin-Westport.
13.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Portarlington to connect with the 14.45 Dublin-Westport, and at Kildare to connect with the 15.10 Dublin-Waterford.
18.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 20.10 Dublin-Carlow.
10.00 (Sundays) Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 07.50 from Westport.
09.25 Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 07.50 from Waterford.
14.30 (Sundays) Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 12.40 from Waterford.
16.35 (Sundays) Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 15.10 from Waterford.
07.15 Westport-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 10.15 Dublin-Waterford.
13.30 Galway-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 15.10 Dublin-Waterford.
Most of these are at off-peak times, and these changes would reduce certain cross-country journey times by 1-2 hours. Apart from the 13.20 from Cork, I have not proposed more than one extra stop per train, so it won’t negate the general trend of reducing the number of stops on the express trains. I know that passengers making these connections are few in number compared with those going to or from Dublin, and no one expects an immediate connection, but I have proposed extra stops where it turns an impractical journey into a practical one. There is a long tradition of providing this kind of connection, which has come under threat in recent times with the need to reduce intermediate stops.
As one who sometimes travels with dogs, I have sought in other contexts to get Irish Rail to adopt the more liberal approach used in Britain and the Continent. Under the present rules, where only Mark 4 trains carry dogs, the above proposals would provide some Mark 4 service at Portarlington and Kildare.
Displaying the timetable:
With trains now overtaking each other on the 4-track part, I recommend that overtaken trains should be shown in two separate columns, with arrows to show continuity. This is the normal practice in other countries, and was also used by CIE in older times when fast trains overtook stopping trains. People often scan the page looking for connections, e.g. on page 2, the 07.30 Heuston-Kildare looks as if it connects into the 07.35 Heuston-Galway – until you look at the times of Kildare stops and find that they don’t connect.

For each of the three minor lines:
I know that this line is struggling with passenger numbers, but often the way to attract passengers to a line like this is to increase frequency to give real choices. This is what made a difference on the Sligo line a few years ago. We should be aiming for one every two hours eventually.
.
Also:
In the meantime I would suggest running an 11.35 or 12.35 from Waterford, returning from the Junction at 13.45 or 14.45. The later time would avoid a tight turn-round in Waterford. If nothing else, this should be operated for a summer season, and properly marketed.

That’s an improvement to see through services between Galway/Ennis and Limerick Junction. Some of them operate that way at present, but are shown in the timetable as needing a change. Any change of trains is a potential deterrent, and for most of the day anyone going from Dublin to Ennis, or Cork to Galway has to change twice.
Is there still a train going once a week between Limerick and Ballina via Athlone, to bring the railcars back for maintenance? If so, it should be opened to passengers. This is especially so if it runs between Ennis and Athenry in the middle part of the day, when an existing train is to be withdrawn. Even if only a few passengers use it, that’s better than running it empty. It could be shown as “Subject to alteration”.
The 18.35 Galway-Ennis is meant to provide a connection with the 16.30 Dublin-Galway, to give people from the Gort area a decent day return service to Dublin. Unfortunately, there is now to be over half an hour’s wait. Can any way be found to reduce this wait? A possibility is to run the 18.10 from Galway as a dividing train for Athlone and Ennis, but that may not be possible if they are two different kinds of trains. Can a way be found?

The 17.45 Limerick-Nenagh should be restored. This will need to be marketed properly, to win back many of the customers who were lost last May when the train was re-timed to be too early for many commuters. If it still tends to run empty after Birdhill, then advertise it as a Birdhill train rather than not running it at all.
.
I have also sent my suggestion about the Westport line as shown above. My logic is that some people have looked for a train from Dublin to Tullamore, and it's up to IR to place this request alongside all the others they have received, and make their decision. It's not up to me to say there isn't a demand for any service. Now, it could be that the 17.10 Dublin-Athlone will stay overnight and will form the 09.08 the next morning, so my proposal would mess this up, but then it mightn't be done that way. At present, the 07.30 from Dublin splits at Athlone, so my proposal is not hugely different in running costs.
I have also suggested for the Galway line:
On Sundays, the 19.25 Galway-Athlone should run about 15 minutes later, to take connection from the 18.15 from Limerick. It would then cross the 18.45 Dublin-Galway at Ballinasloe. I don’t think the timing of this train is governed by anything else.
.
I'm working on a submission for the Waterford line, and I want to take up the suggestion in #35 of this thread, about running a train about 16.20 Waterford-Dublin. Perhaps, if they can't sustain a train from Waterford around this time, I should propose running a Carlow-Dublin train. The train could come from Dublin at any time earlier in the day (any suggestions?), and leave Carlow at 17.47. Time is then tight to get to Cherryville Junction (and it has to stop at Athy) before the 17.35 gets there. The train would then follow the 18.15 Newbridge-Dublin, overtaking it on the four tracks. Alternatively, it could leave Carlow at 18.14 and run in its existing path.
But what was your point about the 09.10? Do you mean that there should be a 09.10 Waterford-Dublin? I had noticed that in the last timetable consultation, because this line was moving towards a two-hourly (nearly) clock-face service, and 09.00 from Waterford was one of the gaps.
.
Did you know that the new 09.45 Westport-Dublin is a restoration of a train withdrawn in the cutbacks of 1975? It dates from a more leisurely era, when there wasn't the concentration of traffic early in the morning, because less people were making day return trips.

[Jamie2k9]

I have sent the following comments to IR on their website.
Cork line:
Good to see the improved journey times, and better use being made of the four tracks at the Dublin end. I suggest the following extra stops to improve connections:
13.00 Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 11.30 from Galway.
21.00 Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 18.15 from Westport and the 19.15 from Galway.
11.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Portarlington to connect with the 12.45 Dublin-Westport.
13.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Portarlington to connect with the 14.45 Dublin-Westport, and at Kildare to connect with the 15.10 Dublin-Waterford.
18.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 20.10 Dublin-Carlow.
10.00 (Sundays) Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 07.50 from Westport.
09.25 Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 07.50 from Waterford.
14.30 (Sundays) Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 12.40 from Waterford.
16.35 (Sundays) Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 15.10 from Waterford.
07.15 Westport-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 10.15 Dublin-Waterford.
13.30 Galway-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 15.10 Dublin-Waterford.
Most of these are at off-peak times, and these changes would reduce certain cross-country journey times by 1-2 hours. Apart from the 13.20 from Cork, I have not proposed more than one extra stop per train, so it won’t negate the general trend of reducing the number of stops on the express trains. I know that passengers making these connections are few in number compared with those going to or from Dublin, and no one expects an immediate connection, but I have proposed extra stops where it turns an impractical journey into a practical one. There is a long tradition of providing this kind of connection, which has come under threat in recent times with the need to reduce intermediate stops.
As one who sometimes travels with dogs, I have sought in other contexts to get Irish Rail to adopt the more liberal approach used in Britain and the Continent. Under the present rules, where only Mark 4 trains carry dogs, the above proposals would provide some Mark 4 service at Portarlington and Kildare.
Displaying the timetable:
With trains now overtaking each other on the 4-track part, I recommend that overtaken trains should be shown in two separate columns, with arrows to show continuity. This is the normal practice in other countries, and was also used by CIE in older times when fast trains overtook stopping trains. People often scan the page looking for connections, e.g. on page 2, the 07.30 Heuston-Kildare looks as if it connects into the 07.35 Heuston-Galway – until you look at the times of Kildare stops and find that they don’t connect.


Can't see the Cork trains making anymore extra stops.

Waterford timetable:
If I had my way I would change the following:
16.40 remains at 16.35 and arrives in Waterford at 18.46.
16.50 restored to 16.30 (would require the 09.15 down resteored 10.15 moved back to 11.15)
18.25 moved back to 19.15
Few other minor time changes.

16.30 operates corsses with 15.10 at Ballyhale, 16.35 at Carlow. Will not affect 17.35.
19.15 (provents the 16.40 stoppage in Ballyhale) by takeing advantage of split platfrom in Waterford and and spreads the gap from 90 (old timetable)to 2h45m between 16.30 and 19.15. The 19.15 crosses the 17.35 at Ballyhale, crosses with 18.35 at Kilkenny and depart Kilkenny at 20.06 (18.35 would arrive 3 mins ahead of the proposed time with less time in Carlow) and arrive in Heuston at 21.30. Would not affect the 20.10 service which departes Kildare at 20.56 and Waterford service arrives at 21.01 would of cleared junction by 20.57 but might be better to move the 20.10 to 20.15 to make sure.

It would mean the driver of the 15.10 having 2h wait in Waterford but on Sundays there is a 1h35m wait so no real differacne. If drivers are payed by the hour then it would be costly but if its for every train service they operate then it wouldn't be a problem.

I know for a fact that the proposed Sunday service has come in for a lot of criticism mainly moving the bussiest train of the day to 12.40 and not haveing a lather service 18.05 moved by 30-35 minutes. Its a poor attempt by IE to spread out the 4 services and not add an extra one which is needed as the current afternoon ones are always packed and stading room only most weeks. Adding an extra service would enable the 07.10 to be a 6 peice on Mondays.

[Thomas J Stamp]

The Mk4 is not a major leap forward on the Mk3, some of the UK Mk3 re-furbishments are way ahead of the Mk4s.

yes, but thats not the point being made here. had the mark3's been refurbished then we wouldnt have needed as many 22ks, and in any event even the un-refurbished mark3's were more comfortable than the 22ks.

[jacko]

when can we expect to have the timetable actually issued?

[Jamie2k9]

They took the draft down on Friday so I would say they will try to have it out by Friday if possible but they have said Connolly will be published this week around 19 Dec. Leaving it until first week in Jan gives less than 3 weeks before its due to take affect unless they leave it until late Jan for it to take affect.

More impotently when will all the TSR's be liftled (IE staff taking early Christmas holidays?). Kildare station needs to be addressed before any timetable takes affect.

[Thomas J Stamp]

from looking at boards.ie and irn it seems as if a few of the 201 fleet have been raided for parts. wonder if what is left will go up for sale if they ever try to upgrade the dublin-cork dublin-belfast services in the next ten years?

[Jamie2k9]

With Waterford-Limerick J reduction to allow for split shift to be interduced can anybody estimate the savings IE would make over a year or so.

[Destructix]

from looking at boards.ie and irn it seems as if a few of the 201 fleet have been raided for parts. wonder if what is left will go up for sale if they ever try to upgrade the dublin-cork dublin-belfast services in the next ten years?

Would have thought GM still sold parts for these locomotives. Maybe they can't afford to buy them so are scrapping the non push/pull locos.

[Mark Gleeson]

Parts are no problem, but if you only need 15 or so out of 32 locomotives why spend cash on parts, strip the first batch of locomotives and move on.

[Colm Moore]

Would have thought GM still sold parts for these locomotives. Maybe they can't afford to buy them so are scrapping the non push/pull locos."Scrapping" is the wrong word - they are being stripped or cannibalised for parts. :)

New parts can eventually be bought to bring as many of them as necessary back into use.

[Thomas Ralph]

More of a problem is that I don't know whether the 201s will start up again if they aren't kept running...

[dowlingm]

The engines probably wouldn't be an issue, loads of EMD710s (and 645s for the 071s) about, just 201 class-specific parts.

[plant43]

Looks like it might be going live on January 19th/20th. I tried to book a train after this date and got this message

Timetable valid from 14/08/2012 to 19/01/2013.

[doherty jack]

With Waterford-Limerick J reduction to allow for split shift to be interduced can anybody estimate the savings IE would make over a year or so.

Carrick cabin will close if these alterations are passed through...

[Traincustomer]

Presumably if the foregoing materialises, Cregg Road level crossing (adjacent to the station) will be automated at the same time.

[Jamie2k9]

Its not a case of if anymore, its happening. IE staff confirmed it last week to me that split shift is starting.

On the draft timetable the 16.25 to Limerick is scheduled to serve Limerick J at 18.15 and a shuttle service scheduled to arrive at 18.11 and the Waterford-Limerick J service arrvies 18.05 and the 17.20 from Cork arrives at 18.17. My question is how will the 16.25 to Limerick stop there at 18.13. Will it use the main Cork Platfrom and be gone by 18.17 or a mistake in the timetable and what is the point of it serving Limerick J?

[ACustomer]

I doubt if Cregg Road crossing will be automated: there is probably no budget for that: and anyhow there are loads of other manual crossings on the line. The present time table does not require Carrick as block post, and in fact there are no crossings scheduled of regular passenger trains between the Junction and Waterford. So in signalling terms there is nothing new in the new timetable: turning all manual crossings and block posts into split shift operation would seem to be the name of the game.

Carrick might well remain a block post even if only to facilitate timely communication of train running to mid-section level crossings.

[Traincustomer]

Carrick on Suir works
In my view the works at Carrick are likely to be independent of the timetable as:
1. no trains pass each other at any point between Limerick Junction and Waterford whether under the current three a day trains or under the proposed two a day service.
2. the draft timetable is subject to the approval of the National Transport Authority.

Carrick on Suir passenger facilities
In terms of facilities for intending passengers if in the future Carrick has no staff whatsoever in attendance it's unlikely the waiting room and toilets will be able to be opened and closed (unless a local arrangement can be devised).
There's nowhere sheltered on the platform so it's likely a shelter (similar to the one at Cahir) will have to be erected on the platform.

Limerick Junction - interesting situation as there are a lot of proposed train movements around that time. Would anticipate the ex Waterford train will occupy platform 2 (18.05), then the ex Limerick train occupies platform 3 (18.11). The 16.25 Heuston-Limerick will have to use the main platform (1) (18.13) but presumably if it's not exactly on time it's going to entail the 17.20 Cork-Dublin being held at a signal outside the station (or alternatively the 16.25 Dublin-Limerick itself being held at a signal). On the face of it it does however look as if there may be undue potential for knock-on delays by the very close interval between the 16.25 Heuston-Limerick and 17.20 Cork-Heuston. Perhaps the draft working timetable has a slightly greater margin between these trains than is shown in the public timetable. Possibly the reason for proposing that the 16.25 Heuston-Limerick be altered to serve the Junction (even though a Cork-bound train serves the Junction only around fifteen minutes after it) is because the 16.25 serves additional intermediate stations which are not served by the Cork-bound service and that it has been assessed that there is demand from these stations to Limerick Junction at that time of day.

[Jamie2k9]

Limerick Junction - interesting situation as there are a lot of proposed train movements around that time. Would anticipate the ex Waterford train will occupy platform 2 (18.05), then the ex Limerick train occupies platform 3 (18.11). The 16.25 Heuston-Limerick will have to use the main platform (1) (18.13) but presumably if it's not exactly on time it's going to entail the 17.20 Cork-Dublin being held at a signal outside the station (or alternatively the 16.25 Dublin-Limerick itself being held at a signal). On the face of it it does however look as if there may be undue potential for knock-on delays by the very close interval between the 16.25 Heuston-Limerick and 17.20 Cork-Heuston. Perhaps the draft working timetable has a slightly greater margin between these trains than is shown in the public timetable. Possibly the reason for proposing that the 16.25 Heuston-Limerick be altered to serve the Junction (even though a Cork-bound train serves the Junction only around fifteen minutes after it) is because the 16.25 serves additional intermediate stations which are not served by the Cork-bound service and that it has been assessed that there is demand from these stations to Limerick Junction at that time of day.

16.25 to Limerick should arrive at 18.10 and depart at 18.13. (takes 21 mins for 16.00 to Cork between both stops assume same for Limerick). If there is a delay of 5-10 mins to any service it causes a great deal of hassle as the 17.00 is due in at 18.27 so if the 17.20 is held up much then the 17.00 will be delayed and it will just be the usual story for the current 17.30 ex Cork always 10-20 minutes delayed most days at the junction.

[Traincustomer]

I think this is a very good point raised regarding the 16.25 being proposed to call at the Junction.

---------------------------

I suppose cost-cutting is the name of the game on all fronts so perhaps no automation of Cregg Road LC.

[neoncircles]

Sounds like a typical irish rail arrangement.

[dowlingm]

there are non-passenger moves, such as the movement of wagons between Waterford and Limerick. Presumably those can be squeezed in?

[jacko]

only three weeks to go and still no confirmation of timetable - impossible to book a train online after the 18th January - a joke of a company!

[Inniskeen]

There is no active proposal to automate the level crossing at Carrick on Suir. There has been a degree of local agitation concerning delays at the crossing with one local politician even dragging Vradkar to witness the trauma allegedly experienced by motorists.

Expect Irish Rail to devise a solution that futher marginalises the railway to save a handful of motorists a few minutes every now and again.

Limerick/Waterford is yet another line where a lot of public money has been spent with no substantive result. The proposed timetable from mid-January is yet another step towards irrelevance. Ironically this is one of the few routes where Irish Rail could run a relevant and competitive service, but appear to have no wish to do so.

Seems only a matter of time before Waterford is reduced to a similar status to Rosslare with services to and from Dublin and a greatly dimished infrastructure.

[doherty jack]

I`d say the Cabin in Carrick will be come a gate box and who ever is on duty will open the waiting room and toliets .
If its removed as a Block Post , all turnouts will be removed ...

Considering tipp town station is being CTC upgraded , and 2 level crossings east of tipp town were recently automated in the last month...
you would they would keep Carrick open , this is a regrettable decision ....

[Inniskeen]

Just curious - what two level crossings east of Tipp have been automated ?

[Traincustomer]

Have an inkling it may be Bansha and Cappagh LCs but haven't been on the westerly part of the line for a few months.

[doherty jack]

Grange was one of them cant remember the other ..

[Kilocharlie]

The last train from Galway to Dublin will now be 19:15, rather than 18:05, which is a big improvement. I don't think in the history of CIE they ever ran a train that late from Galway to Dublin.

The 18:05 departure from Galway will become 18:10.

Long, long ago there used to be a 2000ish departure from Galway to Dublin via Mullingar and taking all of 5 hours! It was the mail train and had a single passenger carriage attached. It was there in 1980 and probably for some years after that.

[Inniskeen]

Grange was one of them cant remember the other ..

Interesting, I thought there was only one automated crossing on this line (at Ballindine near Carrick on Suir) or perhaps two, if you include Newrath (shared with the Waterford/Kilkenny line).

[ACustomer]

Could there be a confusion with Grange on the main line at MP 104 or thereabouts? This used to be an AHB crossing but was converted to CCTV-monitored 4-barrier and incorporated into the Limerick Junction resignalling a couple of years ago.

[neoncircles]

Indeed Grange is on the mainline as opposed to the Waterford one.

[dowlingm]

Ballydine/Ballindine LC which I'm guessing is the one in the distance here (https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=ballydine,+ireland&hl=en&ll=52.365419,-7.518931&spn=0.016169,0.038581&hnear=Ballydine,+County+Tipperary,+Ireland&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=52.365419,-7.518931&panoid=2o0n-JCb058mofnkb-wFYQ&cbp=12,0,,0,0) was converted this year. According to the same issue of IRN (http://www.irrs.ie/Journal%20178/178%20Infrastructure.htm) CWR was then at 81pc of the LJ-Waterford line. Nice to see them racking up the capital spend to justify closure :rolleyes:

[doherty jack]

on the working timetable it was under Limerick jcntn - Waterord section

[neoncircles]

It seems there is a grange on the waterford line (http://www.irishrail.ie/index.jsp?p=126&n=243)- is located at the former Grange station.

[Inniskeen]

Its not a case of if anymore, its happening. IE staff confirmed it last week to me that split shift is starting.

On the draft timetable the 16.25 to Limerick is scheduled to serve Limerick J at 18.15 and a shuttle service scheduled to arrive at 18.11 and the Waterford-Limerick J service arrvies 18.05 and the 17.20 from Cork arrives at 18.17. My question is how will the 16.25 to Limerick stop there at 18.13. Will it use the main Cork Platfrom and be gone by 18.17 or a mistake in the timetable and what is the point of it serving Limerick J?

This arrangement is a little tight. Not sure why the 1625 stops - three possible reasons


To waste time (can't make Dromkeen to cross the 1745 from Limerick)

To provide a connection from Waterford to Limerick (saves 21 minutes)

To provide a connection to Cork from intermediate stations served by the 1625.


Incidentally the re-casting of the Cork/Dublin schedule means that there is generally at least twenty minutes between services at the mainline platform in Limerick Junction. This minimises conflict between services but means that Cork/Limerick & Limerick/Cork connections are poor - similar waiting time as applies to Limerick/Waterford and Waterford/Limerick connections.

A further effect of recasting the Cork/Dublin service is that most Limerick Junction/Limerick trains are delayed about 8 minutes at Dromkeen to cross a Limerick/Limerick Junction service.

[dowlingm]

Incidentally the re-casting of the Cork/Dublin schedule means that there is generally at least twenty minutes between services at the mainline platform in Limerick Junction. This minimises conflict between services but means that Cork/Limerick & Limerick/Cork connections are poor - similar waiting time as applies to Limerick/Waterford and Waterford/Limerick connections.

A further effect of recasting the Cork/Dublin service is that most Limerick Junction/Limerick trains are delayed about 8 minutes at Dromkeen to cross a Limerick/Limerick Junction service.What? You expect IE to update more than one service at a time? :D

[Kilocharlie]

From irishrail.ie:

02 January 2013

Online bookings from 20th January 2013 onwards are currently unavailable.

A new rail timetable is scheduled to be introduced on this date, and is currently being finalised subject to the approval of the National Transport Authority.

We hope to have the new timetable available as soon as possible to enable bookings to be made. Iarnród Éireann apologises for any inconvenience caused.

[jacko]

From irishrail.ie:

02 January 2013

Online bookings from 20th January 2013 onwards are currently unavailable.

A new rail timetable is scheduled to be introduced on this date, and is currently being finalised subject to the approval of the National Transport Authority.

We hope to have the new timetable available as soon as possible to enable bookings to be made. Iarnród Éireann apologises for any inconvenience caused.

nothing short of scandalous

[Jamie2k9]

New timetable loaded from 20 Jan, not bookable yet but they have added no changes I suggested, has anyone had there implemented.

[Mark Gleeson]

Only change I have seen is the 17:20 Mon-Fri Heuston - Newbridge now runs to Portlaoise

You can't see it because its faster leave Heuston on a train after it and connect down the line somewhere as the 17:25, 17:30 and 17:35 all overtake it

[jacko]

scandalous failure to respond to demand/changes

as an example I emailed IR about moving the 06.00 Cobh-Cork (no one uses it at present) to 06.30 (arr Cork 06.54) to connect with the new 07.00 Cork-Heuston. nothing !

The figures will show that there was always passengers getting the 07.00 Cobh-Cork and connecting with the old 07.30 Cork-Heuston.

Now we have to get up for a 06.00 train and wait 35 mins in Cork or drive in at 6.30 despite having a yearly ticket

Disgraceful

[Traincustomer]

Have just spotted two minor items as follows:

* 20.10 (draft & current actual) Heuston-Carlow (Mon-Fri commuter) deferred to 20.15.
* 19.05 (draft) Ballybrophy - Limerick via Nenagh (Mon-Sat) advanced to 19.00.

Annoyed by the new timetable on several fronts but don't wish to comment further - it's at least good that other posters also feel similarly let down/disappointed.

[Kilocharlie]

Another change in the 1930 Heuston-Portlaoise in the draft is deferred to 1945 leaving a long gap between 1835 and 1945 for Kildare and Monasterevin (1855 only goes to Newbridge). Current timetable has 1840, 1915,1940.

Otherwise new timetable is a significant improvement for Kildare with more and faster peak services. No more the dawdling 1725 taking 41min or the 0600 from Waterford pausing at Parkwest - both held by local services.

[Jamie2k9]

As far as I can see once the draft was taken down it was just sent to the NTA and very few suggestions looked at I can't see anyone looking for the 17.20 to be extended to Portlaoise, would say its down to driver based there or for scheduled maintance/clean etc. The timetable went straight to the NTA and with Christmas hoildays it delayed the process and thats why its only today that it went up. Its a discrase that 20 Jan for a start date was decided when IE know full well it would cause problems. If the draft was issued in mid November as stated by them to me twice then a 20 Jan start date would be fine.

Just two changes I sent in:
18.25 Waterford-Hueston arrive Kilkenny 19.00 depart 19.02.
17.35 Heuston-Waterford arrive Kilkenny 19.05 depart 19.10.
I told them to change the 19.02 to 19.06 but no they couldn't even manage that even though the schedule is timetabled for a 19.06 departure.

18.05 Waterford-Heuston arrives 20.20. Takes 2h15m for the train when all the other trains up take 2h10m. They decided to allow 30 minutes for a 20 (3 other services) between Newbridge-Heuston. Just why do this when they know full well that the current 18.05 service arrives in at 20.20 when it departes Newbridge at 19.59 every week and the new timetable has a departure at 19.52. Just what sort of plebs are putting the schedule together?

[Mark Gleeson]

Realistically the consultation should have started start October,November would be final changes 2 weeks, then 2 weeks for NTA sign off, then six weeks notice to public, simple and logical but sadly that isn't what goes on in Irish Rail

[Traincustomer]

Now that the new timetable, with its good and bad points, is finalised it may be interesting to discuss realistic and attainable further steps that may be a possibility for 2014.

From previous discussions a few issues, in my view, need to be looked at. Among them:

* Speed limit increases on sections of other lines: the scope (or lack thereof) for the speed limit on some sections on other lines to be raised (e.g. the Rosslare line).

* Additional station potential ? If there are one or two provincial locations where there may be scope to provide a low cost station and tap new business. A better way to look at this may be if there was to be a list of five locations that might see a station within the next two decades where they might be.

* Feeder buses: The scope for feeder buses in certain provincial locations to provide a seamless and integrated service (e.g. there was a plan for a rail feeder bus from Fermoy/Mitchelstown to Mallow - http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=538&month=May. Similarly Drogheda station is a long walk from West Street yet there is no bus.

[jacko]

surely it is pertinent to ask the following questions of Irish Rail

1. How many submissions were received on foot of the draft timetable

2. How many changes were made as a direct result of a submission(s)

3. What was the purpose of the consultation period if the submissions were ignored ?

[Jamie2k9]

Timetable is now bookable.

Just having a scan through and it could be a mistake but the 18.35 to Waterfod has bieng dropped to a 3 car set as has the 07.10 up. Not I can understand the 07.10 up but not the 18.35 down. Just where are the economics to drop a busy service and keep a 6 car set on the 18.20 up service thas empty?

They have very high hopes for Galway services by going from a 3 to 6 car set on the 19.35 service.

It also looks like ICR will remain on the 09.20, 16.20 from Cork and 13.00, 21.00 down as well as the 09.00. The 08.00 now showing as a Mark4 everyday.

[Kilocharlie]

Timetable is now bookable.

Just having a scan through and it could be a mistake but the 18.35 to Waterfod has bieng dropped to a 3 car set as has the 07.10 up. Not I can understand the 07.10 up but not the 18.35 down. Just where are the economics to drop a busy service and keep a 6 car set on the 18.20 up service thas empty?

They have very high hopes for Galway services by going from a 3 to 6 car set on the 19.35 service.

It also looks like ICR will remain on the 09.20, 16.20 from Cork and 13.00, 21.00 down as well as the 09.00. The 08.00 now showing as a Mark4 everyday.

Where does it say that a service will be a 3-car?

[Jamie2k9]

Go as far as selecting seats and it shows 3 carrages. It only shows 3 when its a 3 and 6 when its a 6 and 5 if its a first class set.

[Mark Gleeson]

The display online is NO indication of the train length

For operational reasons the website will always show the seating layout of a non first class service as if it is a 3 coach train.

This avoids non existant seats where a 2*3 is used instead of 6

[Jamie2k9]

The display online is NO indication of the train length

For operational reasons the website will always show the seating layout of a non first class service as if it is a 3 coach train.

This avoids non existant seats where a 2*3 is used instead of 6

If you look at the 16.35 and 17.35 services they have 2*3 on show when means it will be joined, I don't see why they would leave out the 18.35 and 07.10 up in the mornings to add at a lather date. There will be changes of course but seems strange to leave it out now.

[Jamie2k9]

I asked IR on twitter and they couldn't give an anser but said they will look into it further.

One other change is the 05.55 connection from Tralee to Heuston will depart at 04.55 on Monday only to allow an arrival in Heuston 08.30 and not 09.30 as with other days.

[Mark Gleeson]

The default length of non first class service is 3

That has to be overridden in the timetable

[ACustomer]

Jacko (#111 above) complained about the bad connection form Cobh into the new 0700 from Cork to Dublin. Well I just noticed that for nearly all Cobh-Dublin connections the Cobh train arrives at 24 mins past the hour and the Dublin train leaves at 20 mins past: so there are over a dozen instances of totally lousy connections at Cork.

I suppose the excuse will be "ah sure there is no demand for it". I'm not surprised, given the waiting time.

[Mark Gleeson]

You can't win as Midelton trains connect well

[Kilocharlie]

Another change in the 1930 Heuston-Portlaoise in the draft is deferred to 1945 leaving a long gap between 1835 and 1945 for Kildare and Monasterevin (1855 only goes to Newbridge). Current timetable has 1840, 1915,1940.

Otherwise new timetable is a significant improvement for Kildare with more and faster peak services. No more the dawdling 1725 taking 41min or the 0600 from Waterford pausing at Parkwest - both held by local services.

Late revision 11/1/13: the 1855 which was originally shown on the Journey planner as operating to Newbridge is now extended to Portlaoise.

[Jamie2k9]

Accoding to a tweet from Irish Rail in response to a service cut they say they got very little public feedback from the Heuston timetable.

[neoncircles]

Accoding to a tweet from Irish Rail in response to a service cut they say they got very little public feedback from the Heuston timetable.

Maybe all the feedback submitted from the website was just sent into a black hole.

[plant43]

Irish Rail claim that they ran an extensive media campaign to publicise it, but surely posters at stations or even handing out printed copies of the draft timetable at stations would not have been too much to ask.

[karlr42]

I wait with bated breath to see if and how IE inform passengers of how to transfer between the Maynooth and M3 Parkway platforms at Clonsilla. Some of them nice blue signs they got last year would be handy, as would some PA announcements.

[gaiusc]

New timetable is awful. I commute Heuston-Sallins everyday (yes, the "wrong" way) and for getting back to Heuston in the evening, my choices used to be the feasible 1723 train or the 1816 train. Now there's a train at 1700 and nothing till 1810 so a 50 min gap has become a 70 min gap between trains.

Won't get home until after 7 now when it used to be 6.15 or so.

[KSW]

Connolly side, Rosslare services haven't even changed still the boring services. All the routes have a mention on the new timetbale and changes Rosslare not a mention. Its not surprising nobody will be shocked

[ThomasJ]

Connolly maynooth side and the weather is taking havoc again with packed trains and docklands closed.

[Jamie2k9]

Anyone know how the Heuston services were this morning? I know the 06.05 from Waterford arrived at the usual time of 08.20 and yesterday train crossings on the line took between 5-12 minutes longer than scheduled. One positive is staff managed to get trains out of Kilkenny on time.

[Mark Gleeson]

Arrivals in Heuston looked pretty good this morning, minor delays on Galway and Waterford, but not more than 5-10 minutes. Given the padding into Heuston its easy enough to claw back some time

[Jamie2k9]

Mark looks like I was right about the capacity reduction on the 18.35 and 07.10 services. Today 18.35 was a 3 car set with 50+ people standing. Few people couldn't take bikes on because it was full and a kildare stop added.

What do they expect when old 18.30 to Westport is gone that stopoped at Newbridge is dropped (replaced by 18.25 slower service), 18.40 to Portlaoise moved to 18.55. A lot go off at Newbrisge but I was standing until after Athy. All Irish Rail staff were doing looking. There was no reason why they couldn't of got another 3 piece set in.

One other thing is they are saying the 06.05 has first class in the mornings but yet they have no first class train in Waterford the night before. Another way of ripping people off. I told them that the over crowing and claiming first class on a service last week but yet they just ignore it.

Great to see some things never change when it comes to Irish Rail...

[Kilocharlie]

Mark looks like I was right about the capacity reduction on the 18.35 and 07.10 services. Today 18.35 was a 3 car set with 50+ people standing. Few people couldn't take bikes on because it was full and a kildare stop added.

What do they expect when old 18.30 to Westport is gone that stopoped at Newbridge is dropped (replaced by 18.25 slower service), 18.40 to Portlaoise moved to 18.55. A lot go off at Newbrisge but I was standing until after Athy. All Irish Rail staff were doing looking. There was no reason why they couldn't of got another 3 piece set in.

One other thing is they are saying the 06.05 has first class in the mornings but yet they have no first class train in Waterford the night before. Another way of ripping people off. I told them that the over crowing and claiming first class on a service last week but yet they just ignore it.

Great to see some things never change when it comes to Irish Rail...

This morning the 0605 had 1st class, first time on a Monday! The 1835 is supposed to be a 1st class set; today might be an exception.

[Jamie2k9]

This morning the 0605 had 1st class, first time on a Monday! The 1835 is supposed to be a 1st class set; today might be an exception.

Only first class on a Monday because the 17.45 to Waterford on Sundays is a first class set. 18.35 is a 3 car Mon-Sat and IR staff confimred it. Its ridiculous and 18,30 to Galway lightly loaded something is going to have to give.

[karlr42]

I wait with bated breath to see if and how IE inform passengers of how to transfer between the Maynooth and M3 Parkway platforms at Clonsilla. Some of them nice blue signs they got last year would be handy, as would some PA announcements.

Got the 2008 Pearse-Maynooth, no announcements at Clonsilla and everyone seemed to be waiting on the westbound platform as 'normal' waiting for the connecting train. Not sure if they realised and got across to the train waiting in the new bay- didn't see anyone left behind when I was walking the opposite side of the canal.

[Inniskeen]

Looks the new timetable got off to a very good start with most Cork to Dublin services running either on time or early. The exceptions were the 0920, 1320 and 1720 ex Cork which were 5, 13 and 14 minutes late respectively.

Galway, Westport and Waterford to Dublin trains likewise generally ran on time or early, the principal exception being the 0605 from Waterford which was 7 minutes late.

Most Belfast to Dublin trains were also on time or early. The worst performers were no more than 2 minutes late.

The main exception to the generally good performance was DART, particularly northbound with several peak trains from Greystones 7-9 minutes late.

[Mark Gleeson]

DART delays mainly originated from the Gorey Connolly service being late

[Jamie2k9]

Exact same problems today a little worse infact. Of course they had staff counting passengers as they boarded but just how many days will they need to count before they do something?

They had 18.25 to Portlaose on 2, 18.35 on 8 (no PA announcements but lots for 18.25 service until it left..) and 18.50 on 4 with no train on the platform.

[Inniskeen]

DART delays mainly originated from the Gorey Connolly service being late.

The Gorey service was early into Connolly !

[KSW]

The Gorey service was early into Connolly !

DART delays mainly originated from the Gorey Connolly service being late

I thought DART trains take priority over Gorey/Rosslare services!!!

[Mark Gleeson]

But it was 10 late out of Greystones which caused all kinds of problems

Arrival in Connolly was exactly on time, not early

[Inniskeen]

It was logged as marginally early, but on time is also a fair description. Mind you despite leaving Greystones late it would have been anything up to ten minutes early but for the DART in front. DART imposes a twenty minute time penalty on diesel services between Greystones and Connolly and in effect makes a credible service from Wicklow and points south almost impossible.

[Jamie2k9]

Looks the new timetable got off to a very good start with most Cork to Dublin services running either on time or early. The exceptions were the 0920, 1320 and 1720 ex Cork which were 5, 13 and 14 minutes late respectively.

Galway, Westport and Waterford to Dublin trains likewise generally ran on time or early, the principal exception being the 0605 from Waterford which was 7 minutes late.


06.05 Waterford-Heuston 08.11
Monday - 08.20
Tuesday - 08.50
Wednesday - 08.16
Thursday - 08.20
Friday - 08.17

Two major problems:
Waterford-Thomastown = 21 mins, timetabled to take 19 because the signiling records they use are nowhere near Thomastown same as the Realtime on website. They are just north of Ballyhale. Most trains make the time up between Thomastwon-Kilkenny as they have 2-3 mins to play around with but the 06.05 does not.

2 speed restrictions:
One betwen Thomastown-Lavistown of 40mph one there less than a week, the other being on the Dublin line at lavistown 25mph which has being in place since October and that was cleared for higer speed heading to Dublin so no mainly its a crawl from Kilkenny until it passes there which makes it very hard to complete Kilkenny-Muine Bheag in 14 minutes and other services have all 15 which works. Didn't expect it to take months to fix the alignment problem.

If Lavistown isn't fixed soon then they will have to revert to an 06.00 departure as its the only way to get in on time.

Between this and 18.35 shambles not a good week, I wonder if they will have a 6 car this evening given its a Friday know IE i expect not.

[Jamie2k9]

Mark any chance you could get IE to give you passenger loadings on the 18.30 to Galway since it started. It was literally empty leaving Heuston last night. It needs to serve Newbridge as I only realised that IE are in breach of their safety notices on the 18.35 to Waterford. Can't wait to hear there response to me on that one.

[Mark Gleeson]

As far as we are aware Irish Rail is operating all service within all current safety rules

Standing limits are not defined in any Irish or EU law or regulation and the NTA make no reference in its contracts

[Jamie2k9]

As far as we are aware Irish Rail is operating all service within all current safety rules


Signs say that bikes, baggage etc should not be blocking doors or emergancy exits and there was a few of bikes in every halway and plenty of bags blocking doors. If you can ask to view the CCTV over the last few days and you will see.

[Jamie2k9]

Irish Rail have interduced their latest attempt to drive passengers away from Waterford line. As of today 18.05 dropped to 3 carrages. Only a hardful of seats free leaving Waterford. This service operates at capacity everyweek with between 360-400 every Sunday. So forcing around 200 passengers onto a 3 carrage in the hope of stopping them from using the service in future. This is due to bad planning of the timetable which leaves a train shortage in Waterford on Mondays.

Told a mate in Kilkenny who is waiting for the train and he asked whats going to happen and he was told if you can get on, then get on if not don't.

Something has to be done...

RUI don't mean to sound rude but its time you get some answers from Irish Rail, not saying you havn't being talking but you need to get them fast.

[Jamie2k9]

Well we arrived late as usual, anything up to 200 passengers standing. From either drivers door through the train people standing, sitting on floor, tables, toilets and baggage all over the place. Anybody who was sitting couldn't get up and go toilets without causing lots of bother. Trolly service was unable to operate at all. A good few passengers got off in Carlow and payed for the Bus to Dublin while staff at the station spend 8 minutes trying to squeese everybody on the train. Air condition may as well of being off, heat was unreal and would only of being a matter of time before somebody would of fainted.

Bus Eireann will do good business next week from students. Irish Rail had a few pictures to tweeted but of course the twitter account goes into ignore mode.

[Jamie2k9]

Irish Rail station manager in Waterford claims there was a mechanical fault on the 14.10 in Heustion and a spare train couldn't be found (imagine that...!) to operate the service at full capacity. Now no staff know anything about this alleged mechanical fault on Sunday evening and no steps were taken to deal with passenger numbers.

Now I find this very hard to believe as an extra 3 car set appeared in Waterford yesterday evening which wasn't there the previous Sunday when there was no mechanical fault on the 14.10 service. From the timetable point of view it was impossible for this second 3 car set to be in Waterford unless Irish Rail decided to run thie service empty to Waterford...

I put the question of why there was not a bus service in place to deal with the expected numbers but didn't get a definite answer and added that Mayo passengers received one. I also said that if this was the Cork line there would be no problems funding a replacement train and it would not of being allowed to operate at reduced capacity. Also no real answer.

Plenty of covering up of the situation and slightly conflicting stories form both ends. Overall he wasn't happy with what when on and there will be some words in Dublin over it during the week and asured people who he had being talking to over the issue that it was a one off and will not happen again.

[plant43]

1835 was 3 carriages again this evening, plenty of bikes and luggage in the hallways.

My guess is that Irish Rail are trying to "encourage" Newbridge commuters onto the 1825 or 1855 train.

[ACustomer]

The problem of the 1835 being only a 3-car set is evidence of really bad management: for a start it's advertised as 1st and 2nd class, which should imply a 6-car set.

Since the cancellation of the 1650 ex Waterford, the timetable is very unbalanced. The 1315 from Dublin arrives in Waterford at 1525, followed by 4 other arrivals (the Down 1510, 1640, 1735 and 1835). There is only one departure from Waterford after 1525, the 1820. Which raises the question: how does the 1315 from Dublin get back: attached to the 1820 from Waterford, which is the return working of the 1510 ex Dublin (?) - which only can happen the the 1510 is a 3-car. Failing this, the only way it can get back is the next morning, but that implies that at least one of the 1640, 1735or 1935 must be a 3-car.

Of course there is the possibility of an ECS return - which I think can be ruled out.

[Jamie2k9]

Since the cancellation of the 1650 ex Waterford, the timetable is very unbalanced. The 1315 from Dublin arrives in Waterford at 1525, followed by 4 other arrivals (the Down 1510, 1640, 1735 and 1835). There is only one departure from Waterford after 1525, the 1820. Which raises the question: how does the 1315 from Dublin get back: attached to the 1820 from Waterford, which is the return working of the 1510 ex Dublin (?) - which only can happen the the 1510 is a 3-car. Failing this, the only way it can get back is the next morning, but that implies that at least one of the 1640, 1735or 1935 must be a 3-car.

THe 13.05 service up is where the problem lies on Mondays. THe 13.15 down service operates it everyday expect Mondays.

Saturdays
13.15 3 peice - operates 07.10 on Mondays
16.40 6 peice
17.35 3 peice (only on sat)
18.35 3 peice

Sundays
09.05 operated by 16.40 set
12.40 operated by 09.10 down set
15.10 operated by 17.35 and 18.35 sets
18.05 operated by 14.10 sets
17.45 and 18.40 service are 6 peice.

IE wanted to cut costs by splitting the 14.10 service as it would save them running the 07.25 down on Monday as a 6 peice and splitting them in Waterford.

There is some very simple solutions to the problems but simple and IE don't mix very well.

13.15 is 6 peice on Fridays and 3 car set runs empty to Heuston. That could stay in Waterford until Monday (its not as if there ICR's are streched).

18.25 up on Saturday is split and 3 car peice left to operate the 13.05 on Monday.

Run the 17.35 or 18.35 as a 6 peice.

Then all problems would be solved but there will be a extra stock movment no matter how IE look at it and no getting around it. If IE want to stop wasting money then why are they running an empty 3 car set to Heuston on Fridays and another example is the 06.30 from Galway being a 6 peice on Saturdays to get it back to Heuston.

[Jamie2k9]

Irish Rail have confirmed that the 18.35 will be restored to 6 carriages soon. About time but it took plenty of people to complain and the delay the other day had passengers standing for over 2 hours and only good part after a long period of time stopped in Celbridge the driver opened the doors so people could get some air. Now part of the decision could be loadings on the 07.10.

[Mark Gleeson]

No they haven't, not as of 08:05 this morning. There is a lot of rumor ongoing

We are awaiting a new version of the Waterford line PDF timetable which will clarify the situation

[ACustomer]

The 1835 Down Waterford is advertised as offering 1st and 2nd class accommodation, which implies a 6-car set. So the present timetable is misleading. Should this be an issue for the NTA: advertising a level of service which appears to have no basis in reality?

[Mark Gleeson]

The issue was raised with Irish Rail some days ago.

A new version of the PDF file is due very soon which will sort the situation out. If the 6 car set is provided, the timetable stays the same, if not the PDF changes.

For other reasons all the PDF's has to be changed anyway

NTA contract makes no reference to provision or advertising of first class

[Jamie2k9]

Mark they have confirmed to me in an email and on there FB page saying we hope to restore the 18.35 to 6 carrages soon, not saying Frist class etc but the current suituation can't contuine.

Here is the comments on FB and I received:

We are hoping to restore the size of this train to six carriages very soon and will let customers know as soon as this is confirmed.

[Mark Gleeson]

That's hardly an absolute confirmation, now is it? Its full of conditional statements

We are hoping
very soon
soon as this is confirmed.

Its the usual PR spiel and we have learned a long time ago to disregard

The official line we have this morning is no change at this time, if there is a change we will be formally told.

[James Howard]

What is wrong with Irish Rail? They have millions of euro worth of assets sitting idle and they have a popular service on which they could be using said assets. Instead of doing this, they are driving away business.

[Mark Gleeson]

The company is effectively bankrupt.

There is a 6 million per annum cost associated with the routine overhaul of the ICR fleet, but cutting the fleet size a saving of 3 million was achieved as a once off in 2012.

The 21 stored coaches are not certified for use as they have reached time/mileage limits.

We have discussed several problem trains with Irish Rail management, 18:35 is top of the list for resolution

[karlr42]

Will the stored coaches ever get overhauled? Or is this a timebomb as more sets are stored when they reach limits and there are no longer enough sets to operate the timetable?

[Mark Gleeson]

Overhauls are ongoing they are unavoidable they must be done, units to be overhauled are taken from the 21 stored units.

When a unit hits its mileage limits it goes into the 21 pool

[karlr42]

That makes sense, as long as the pool isn't expanding fair enough.

[Mark Gleeson]

I have official confirmation that the 18:35 this evening is a 6 coach train

From Monday onwards its should be a 6 coach also, but we are pending absolute confirmation of this.

[Inniskeen]

The overloading of the 1835 to Waterford presumably arises from the stops at Newbridge and Kildare. Not sure that working an additional 3 cars all the way to Waterford and back is the most efficient way of catering for Newbridge and Kildare commuters.

[Jamie2k9]

I have official confirmation that the 18:35 this evening is a 6 coach train

From Monday onwards its should be a 6 coach also, but we are pending absolute confirmation of this.

Mark I have avoided it on Fridays but it could be just a 6 coach today considering its bussiest day and online bookings were around 100 mark and add student travel etc. Don't tell me its being a 3 carrage every friday to.

The overloading of the 1835 to Waterford presumably arises from the stops at Newbridge and Kildare. Not sure that working an additional 3 cars all the way to Waterford and back is the most efficient way of catering for Newbridge and Kildare commuters.

Agree I have pointed out a number of cost saving measures to Irish Rail on how to provide an adequate service for the 18.35 and save operating costs at the same time now they say they will pass to service planning dep but they will just do the opposite and not listen to anyone.

Now as it looks like 6 car set has being restored it will make the NTA response to my emai that I send this morning easier.

1 - Run 18.35 as a 6 peice and split it at Kildare.
2 - Remain a 3 car on 18.35 but run a 18.40 3 car non stop to Kildare service only Newbridge.
3 - Run 18.35 as a 6 peice and split in Carlow and the 21.35 from Carlow can take the extra carrages to Dublin. Now this would be better than option 1 as it would require another driver to move the train in Kildare etc. By splitting in Carlow you would be saving 180 km of fuel per day and then the millage on the clock + wear of the ICR. This is a sensable option and it needs to be done if the company are to provide a service while cutting costs. It spends around 4/5 mins stoped so splitting wouldn't be a problem. It would save just over 55,000km of fuel per year which is massive and passengers are kept happy at the same time.

[James Howard]

Is splitting a big difficulty? It would seem to me that the Sligo line in particular would be very much a candidate for this if it were relatively simple to do. There would be very few trains that justify a 6-car ICR beyond Longford and there is no requirement for first-class or buffet service to complicate matters.

[Jamie2k9]

Its takes seconds to split them but they will not leave a train overnight somewhere its not safe and scure so thats another factor to be considered. The 18.35 is ideal as they don't want to run a full service and the only reason its happening as they have had lots of complaints and came under pressure to do it. On an average day there would be less than 50 left on the 18.35 so they have to give some consideration to the split in Carlow.

[Jamie2k9]

Back to 3 carrages for 18.35 today and I myself also got off at Newbridge and counted 70+ others and I missed a few who go to the car park on platfrom 2 so we are talking about 80+ getting off. The 18.25 has just arrived and there is under 15 passengers on board when only around 5 or 6 got off.

Best thing that can be done to solve all problems is the 18.35 changed to 18.40 and allow the 18.25 service to Portlaoise go ahead or increase costs and operate a 6 carrage train. Very simple solutions.

[Mark Gleeson]

I have been informed that the 18:35 will be 6 coaches this evening.

[Jamie2k9]

I have been informed that the 18:35 will be 6 coaches this evening.

I was emailed at lunchtime saying from this evening it will be a 6 car however that remains to be seen although today could be down to the fact the 07.10 is heavily booked well above normal tomorrow morning so I guess tomorrow evening will be the day we find out for sure that its a 6 car.

[Jamie2k9]

At last some sensible capacity/demand measures have dawned on Irish Rail. Since very recently 21.00 Heuston-Cork reduced to 3 car set, 06.00 up currently ICR operated but not sure if its 3 or 6 at the minute.

[Mark Gleeson]

Where do you think the extra 3 coaches on the 18:35 came from?

[Jamie2k9]

Where do you think the extra 3 coaches on the 18:35 came from?

Expected it would be connected, surely it wasn't because of no spare trains, I suspect they were told restore the capacity and drop capacity on another service that's lightly used to keep costs down. Its more decisions like this that are needed where possible.

[Inniskeen]

With no Kerry connection a 3-car is more than adequate for the 0600 from Cork. Adding the Kerry connection to the 0700 from Cork makes that train a bit tight when operating with a reduced formation.

[Jamie2k9]

First set of OTP results for new timetable:
http://www.irishrail.ie/index.jsp?p=115&n=265

Irish Rail Blog:
http://www.irishrail.ie/blog_post.jsp?blogID=1&a=343

Some small changes coming to Galway/Westport evening services.

[Jamie2k9]

New Galway timetable for opening of Oranmore station. To solve the evening delays up to 10 minutes added to many services.

Majority of services not take 2h30m+ and 2h25m down. Major changes are the xx.30 departure between 11 and 15.30 are now xx.05.

Starts from 28 July, PDF will be out soon.

6.40 Limerick-Heuston also stops at Nass
7.10 Waterford-Heuston also stops at Newbridge from this date.

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4882&p=116&n=237

Timetable changes from Sun 28th July: Oranmore Station opens; extra Newbridge & Sallins commuter service; minor changes on other Heuston routes


22 July 2013

The country’s newest train station at Oranmore, Co Galway opens this Sunday 28th July and will be served by 23 trains on weekdays and 15 trains on Sundays. In addition, commuters at Newbridge and Sallins are set to get an extra weekday commuter service from Monday 29th July.

These are the highlights of some changes to timetables taking effect from this weekend. While most changes are minor, Iarnród Éireann advises customers on routes affected to check times before travel.

You can search times above or check our printed timetables for full information.

Changes include:

- The opening of Oranmore Station on Sunday 28th July. The station, open in time for the Galway Races, will be served by a mixture of Galway/Dublin & Galway/Athenry/Limerick services, with 23 services calling at the station daily (Mon-Fri), 22 on Saturdays, and 15 on Sundays. The journey time from Oranmore to Galway is just 7 minutes, and customers can travel to Limerick, Dublin and a range of intermediate stations also.

- There will also be some time changes to the Galway/Dublin and Galway/Limerick timetables from Sunday 28th July, to accommodate the new station and to improve punctuality further on the route. Customers are advised to check all departure times before travel, and Iarnród Éireann would particularly draw customers attention to:

o 11.30, 13.30 and 15.30 Galway to Heuston services, which will be advanced to 11.05, 13.05 and 15.05 respectively

- Newbridge customers will benefit from a new weekday commuter service from Monday 29th July at 08:34 which will arrive in Heuston at 09:01. Sallins & Naas customers will get a new service at 08:35 which arrives into Heuston at 08:57.

- There will also be some minor changes to departure times on a number of other services on the following routes:

o Portlaoise/Kildare to Heuston

o Limerick to Heuston

o Waterford to Heuston

o Cork to Heuston

o Heuston to Westport/Ballina

Customers are advised to check times before travel, including for intermediate stations. These changes have been approved by the National Transport Authority.



Oranmore is the 144th station on the Iarnród Éireann network. Bicycle parking and car parking facilities will be provided, with a 300 space car park at the station owned and operated by Galway County Council.

Galway Racegoers should note that a shuttle bus service will operate from Oranmore Station to the racecourse at Ballybrit for the duration of race week. Racegoers may use the bus transfer to Ballybrit and return to Oranmore or take the bus to the city centre after the races and then take the train from Galway Station if they wish.

The construction of the station has been funded by the National Transport Authority.

[Colm Moore]

* Heuston to Cork - slight changes to 19:00
* Cork to Heuston - slight changes to 19:20

* Heuston to Limerick / Ennis - quite a few minor changes,
* Limerick / Ennis to Heuston - quite a few minor changes, 05:40 ex-Limerick moved to 05:30, 18:59 ex-Ennis leaves at 19:02, but arrives into Limerick 10 minutes late.