P11 News Item. "DART Fiasco"

[Derek Wheeler]

News Item
Issued by: Platform 11 Communications & Media Officer.

DART FIASCO

Two coaches from the original 1984 DART fleet have returned to Dublin after refurbishment in Germany. But before anyone gets excited, Platform 11 will soon be exposing the scandal behind this refurbishment project which is not all it should be and has caused undue hardship to Dublin commuters. Stay tuned.

[robdrysdale]

http://irishtrainphotos.fotopic.net/p35248675.html

http://irishtrainphotos.fotopic.net/p35248676.html

http://irishtrainphotos.fotopic.net/p35248677.html

http://irishtrainphotos.fotopic.net/p35248678.html

3 pics submitted by 227RiverLaune to IRN board.

New lights on the front. Perhaps an LCD display. Look exactly the same other than that.

[Mark Gleeson]

You haven't seen inside, things are very different but the same seats, well there are no seats inside right now they have to be fitted

[Mark]

New windows too.

[sean]

they even look better!

[Mark Gleeson]

I saw it in the flesh today it looks quite good

[weehamster]

Any chance Derek we can get some insight into this 'fiasco'. :)

[Mark Gleeson]

We did a lot of research on this and while a considerable number of people both here on the P11 board and elsewhere are aware of a problem no one has been able to actually get the evidence to put together a story until now and man this is good

[Gary]

So for those of us in the dark on this when does the story go public?

[Thomas J Stamp]

Soon. Main site and here will have it up contemporaniously with the press release.

[Mark Hennessy]

Well Done CIE eh? :rolleyes:

CIÉ invests €59m in Dart fleet upgrade
Arthur Beesley, Senior Business Correspondent

Dr John Lynch, chairman of CIÉ, at Fairview Dart depot inspecting the first of the newly refurbished original Dart fleet. A total of €59 million is being invested to extend the life of the 22-year-old fleet, upgrading customer facilities as well as safety features.

CIÉ has embarked on a €59 million upgrade of the original fleet of Dart carriages which have been in use since the Dublin suburban rail service started in 1984.

The upgrade programme by Siemens in Germany will extend the life of the fleet by 20 years and bring the service on a par with newer carriages introduced since 2000.

"The original 76-carriage Dart fleet have served the people of Dublin fantastically well over the last 22 years," said CIÉ chairman Dr John Lynch.

"Now, this major refurbishment programme will ensure that quality and reliability is continued and improved, with the most modern features incorporated, to serve Dubliners for another two decades."

The capacity of the carriages will be increased in the programme and audio and visual automated passenger information systems will be introduced.

New safety features in the upgrade include the introduction of an emergency communication system in the passenger area and fire retardant materials.

The first carriages from the initial batch of 20 returned from Siemens last week.

They will go into service next spring after a testing programme.

© The Irish Times

[Mark Gleeson]

Perfect exactly what we need

[James Shields]

The capacity of the carriages will be increased in the programme and audio and visual automated passenger information systems will be introduced.

I'm pretty sure the coaches haven't got any bigger, so I'm guessing this means more standing room and less sitting room.

[Derek Wheeler]

The missile has been loaded and the countdown has commenced.;)

[Mark Gleeson]

I'm pretty sure the coaches haven't got any bigger, so I'm guessing this means more standing room and less sitting room.

Can confirm after seeing the inside over the weekend that the seating capacity has been reduced to 64 in all coaches arranged as follows

At each set of doors at the cab end on one side (towards the cab) is the normal partition on the other side a full bay of seats has been taken out then the normal partition. Where some partitions where taken out in previous years some have gone back in. IE did keep the partitions they removed. Bare in mind there where no actual seats in the coaches I saw so its hard to be 100% sure what the end result will be but the seat frames are the originals repainted in white with the same grab handle now in yellow

That means a lot more room, also means the end of the seats which faced the doors which where tricky in crush loads

The door open button is now to the right of the doors just like the Japanese coaches

[Derek Wheeler]

I thought this quote from the above article was very funny.

CIÉ has embarked on a €59 million upgrade of the original fleet of Dart carriages which have been in use since the Dublin suburban rail service started in 1984.


T.A.R.D.I.S. Anyone?

[Mark Gleeson]

Certainly got a time travel thing going on

[hhf8]

so has the new one entered service?

[Mark Gleeson]

Nope still on test, February, I know which service it will run and I'll be there

The operating rules where changed and the old coaches are now allowed run in 8 car sets which makes best use of fleet. I spotted one on the 8th but thought I was seeing things

Of course IE could have done this last year, the poor availabilty of the Alstom coaches doesn't help (same 2 coaches has been sitting in Inchicore since August)

I personally travelled on a 12 coach DART once

[hhf8]

I noticed the refurbed coaches being pushed out of fairview,just got me thinking.

is their reason why there's two,(they look BRAND new) Alsthom coaches sitting outside fairview?

the 12 coach,was 3 4 sets?

[Mark Gleeson]

is their reason why there's two,(they look BRAND new) Alsthom coaches sitting outside fairview?They have been there since late November, and have now been vandalised.

the 12 coach,was 3 4 sets?
2 6 coach, one came to rescue the other

[Mark Gleeson]

Just to bump this

The 4th deadline IE have given for the return to service of the first refurbished DART will not be met.

The first set returned still hasn't had its seats fitted, though at least its allowed to be left switched on with other trains around it moving so they have got the EMC certification done

[hhf8]

has the first one entered service yet? saw they had used barrels in one of them, barrels are replacement for people..:>

[Mark Gleeson]

Only one spotted moving under its own power is 8107/8307, it has the barrels

Tests are still done very early in the morning, northside at the moment

Since Siemens screwed up the refurbishment a whole lot of extra tests are now required

[Mark Gleeson]

We keep a close eye on the refurbished DART game
428
There are no seats fitted just the water barrels

Note after 40 million euro they couldn't be even arsed to have the correct logo on the front and sides

[Derek Wheeler]

Thank you for that Mark.

It now looks like the entire refurbishment project is going to take longer than it took to build the original DART project in the first place. Back then we were a poverty striken little nation. Apparently we are filthy rich and brilliant now. You wouldn't think that if you study the crazy IE rolling stock situation. Clapped out MK4s. 23 year old DART coaches that should've been refurbed by now. 8 coach DARTs that are a rarity. Commuter railcars on intercity journies....still!

Can they honestly blame "decades of under investment" on any of this? The cravens only went after a well known journo got shafted on one. Nice one Willie!:D

IE can only be made accountable by exposure and embarrassing exposure at that. Roll on P11TV!:D

[Mark Gleeson]

Contracts where signed for the DART coaches in January 1981. The first coaches arrived Dublin February 14th 1983. Bare in mind the technology that powered it (3 stage fixed frequency GTO) wasn't invented at the time of contract signing and 25 months later it was here. Ok it had some design issues but still. It took Siemens 23 months and all they had to do was take it apart and put it back together again

For the record even with over 1 million euro spent on the two coaches above it still makes a awful racket while parked up, IE didn't bother to replace the compressor or motor alternator

[hhf8]

hoe many have returned?,I''ve seen at least 2 in fairview,also one did have the new logo on the side

[Mark Gleeson]

4 sets now back
8107/8307
8113/8313
8123/8323
8131/8331

Sets 8107/8307 + 8113/8313 has seats fitted, the blue barrels are gone and the no smoking and so on stickers have appeared

[MrX]

Why does it have the old DART logo though?

That makes absolutely no sense at all..

:confused:

[robdrysdale]

I noticed this morning that all the refurbished darts were gone from Fairview and 6 old carriages were parked up at the North end of the depot. Have the refurbished units gone back into service?

[Mark Gleeson]

If it was after 10am they are most likely out on test or could be inside the shed.

They are not back in service to our knowledge, that said it will take little more than an hour to confirm

Its easy tell if the coaches outside are being sent abroad. They would have no seats fitted and the pantographs (mechanical assembly which makes contact with the overhead wire) would be missing, thats easy spot

Is the refurbished one parked on its own on the East Wall side gone?

[robdrysdale]

It was at about 8:50. The sheds were empty, I could see inside. It looked to me like the old units were about to be taken inside to have the work you mentioned done. Given that there were 6 old units parked up and 4 Alstrom units parked up also, I figured they would be short on carriages.

[Mark Gleeson]

Well the updated list

6 sets now back
8107/8307
8113/8313
8123/8323
8131/8331
8138/8338
8139/8339

First 4 on the list are running as a 8 coach train on driver training during the morning/afternoon. We continue to keep an eye on this, the first set was to be back in service in June 2005, 22 months on still not one in service.

[zag]

The 8 car set stopped at the northbound platform in Clontarf Road some day last week while I was waiting for a southbound train.

For some reason (hopefully not crossed wires) the trackside doors opened instead of the platform side ones.

The thing was there was a train about to pull in to my platform, so *if* there was anyone on the test train and *if* they weren't paying attention, it would have been extremely bad news for them if they stepped off the wrong side with a DART rolling (thundering down the tracks is not a phrase I associate with the DART) towards them.

z

[Mark Gleeson]

It actually makes total sense, they are shaking the train down by driving it as if it was in service making all the stops. Opening the doors on the wrong side means they can do the full test without accidentally picking up any passengers

I've seen them stop in the past on the bridge at the back of TCD and run the doors through before moving off

[zag]

Yes, but if I was testing the system I would at least wait until the inbound train had either stopped or departed.

If anything goes wrong, the least-worst case would be some loose material falling out the door into the path of the oncoming train, and the most-worst case would be the guy (who the driver didn't know was in the train) leaning against the (normally safe) door falls out under the incoming train.

Wait until the train goes by and the most-worst case becomes the guy falling on the track and learning not to lean against doors again.

z

[Mark Gleeson]

Ahh but on any non passenger service all staff onboard must make there presence known to the driver, typically they travel with the driver

And it does have door opening and closing buzzers

[essoII]

Saw the eight set of re-furbished darts coming home from school on wednesday at Bray. Around 3.00 i think. I dont know if anyone else noticed but there are now side LCD displays in the middle window showing the train destination. Don't think they're on any of the newer DARTs. Seems like a good idea though, like the side displays on commuters.

[Mark Gleeson]

Noticed that, they filled in one of the window opening spaces. It one of the requirements of new accessibilty rules. All the 851x and 852x Japanese coaches have them (52 in total), of course will it work is the big question

Its hard to spot
489

[Thomas J Stamp]

Mark thats where the PIS is. The finished set was in Connolly on Sunday doing a test run.

Yes look really nice outside, inside its the exact same, only yellow handrails.

Waste of money if you ask me. I was expecting fireworks.

[Colm Donoghue]

Waste of money if you ask me. I was expecting fireworks.

Ah comon, you did get Ronie Drew in platforms.. ;)

[Mark Gleeson]

Well what we did expect from a passenger point of view

They would fix the motor alternator, thats the electrical noise under the coach while stationary also causes the strip lights to hum. Could have been replaced with modern solid state equivalent, but no IE kept it

They didn't bother to replace the main compressor either which is very noisy and generates a lot of vibration

Thought they might fit the suspension dampers, but no they took out the brackets so the ride won't be better.

Thought they would make it fully accessible, but no they missed that as well

[Mark Gleeson]

Well its in service apparently, not sure exactly where

[James Shields]

Was parked in new sidings in Fairview around 9:00 this morning. Not visible in Fairview around 6PM his evening.

[essoII]

9.05pm, Greystones, the new 8 carriage set pulled in with passengers and seats installed! i didnt know they had entered service already, must have just been from today or the day before.

[Mark Gleeson]

It was in service it ran the 17:05 Malahide Bray, 18:25 Bray Howth, 19:45 Howth Greystones and 21:30 Greystones Howth

I was onboard, not impressed

Of course as always Iarnród Éireann made no effort to ask passegers what they wanted

[James Shields]

Even DARTs can have a significant height difference.

I would assume that when they started raising platforms (I think around the initial DART build), that they picked a specific height and built all platforms within a reasonable tolerance of that. Perhaps that's assuming a lot!

As far as I know, the suspension systems are supposed bring all trains to a consistent floor height. Clearly it doesn't work very well.

[Mark Gleeson]

Its out again today and will run the 16:23 from Greystones to Howth

[Mark Gleeson]

Nice photos in the members area

http://forum.platform11.org/showthread.php?t=2395

[ThomasJ]

Am on one of the new trains it is heading to howth it is ok. I am not overly happy the doors take forever to close. The trains seem to be wheelchair accessible. But are the poles inside the door not going to make life difficult for a wheelchair user to get on.

[ThomasJ]

Sorry that did not come out right. I was just looking at the wheelchair area and i noticed that the poles inside the door are in the layout of two spread out on one side but one only in the centre on the other side. I just thought that the poles were closer to the door and may provide an obstacle for the wheelchair passenger.

[hhf8]

It was in service it ran the 17:05 Malahide Bray, 18:25 Bray Howth, 19:45 Howth Greystones and 21:30 Greystones Howth

I was onboard, not impressed

Of course as always Iarnród Éireann made no effort to ask passegers what they wanted

are they basically the same inside just with new paint?

[Mark Gleeson]

Its basically the same but the quality of the finish is not a tap on the original

It feels very much like a patch up job, little care in integrating the new bits the celling looks very strange as does the massive lump for the PIS system (top photo)

505

506

[hhf8]

it looks like a 2600 with the glass panels,from what i can see,does it have less standing room?