View Full Version : Enterprise service
EnterpriseUser
29-08-2011, 11:50
I travelled to Dublin yesterday on the 1000 Enterprise. The train was packed even in First where I was with my three children. The service was exemplary as I think this is now the sole service in these islands that offers hot cooked food at the weekend. I was very impressed with all the staff who coped extraordinarily well with their customers. The train manager ran the service very well and ensured all who had reserved seats got them and those who did not paid the upgrade fare. The cabin steward had worked the night before when First was packed on both the 1900 and 2050 services due to the rugby match. One wishes the Enterprise was faster; the aspiration in the 70s was 90 minutes non-stop. For me the fastest was 105 minutes on the 1800 non-stop service in the 80s although the booked time was 115 minutes the road ahead was clear and the 075 engine class demonstrated it's pedigree. Sadly such feats are frowned on as the tracks are busier and 'elf and safety rules all! Nonetheless the Enterprise is the best service going in these islands!
Mark Gleeson
29-08-2011, 13:15
I fail to see the need to claim that Enterprise is somehow a wonderful service
It is the least reliable and least punctual line anywhere on this island and is a disgrace of a cross border service. The interior is consistently dirty announcements inaudible in the last carriage and customer service is ridiculously inconsistent. It is currently under investigation for multiple breeches of EU passenger rights regulations.
It doesn't look great to the outsider, especially when I had the production team of a UK TV show in tow recently. Much of the problem is down to the fact its a joint operation and no one seems willing to take the leap to improve matters.
Try booking a standard class seat from Belfast, you can't, you could in 1947 you can't today
EnterpriseUser
29-08-2011, 14:38
Mark: that's not my experience with the Enterprise and I use it every second week. We know the limitations but for my money it is consistently more reliable than any other IE service.
I may be a bit late to this one, but I have to jump in here. I used to be a daily Enterprise commuter for 4 years and am now a Drogheda/ Balbriggan line communter. I absolutely agree with everything Mark said. While I was travelling on the Enterprise there wasn't a week that went by without some sort of delay, security alerts and otherwise, and at least once every three weeks there was a significant delay. Rarely was any information given to passengers. While it has improved in some ways - gone is the long winding boarding queue at Connolly and the makeshift hut at Newry - the last time I was on it I very nearly missed an important meeting due to a delay and the upholstery was so worn I would feel the metal underneath.
While the Drogheda line is far from perfect itself I have experienced nowhere near the same amount of delays since I have been using it. Although something could be done about the overcrowding, especially during rush hour - the 17.29 (now 17.35?) ex Connolly in particular.
In a submission to the North South Ministerial Council in November 2007, JBC called on the two Governments to set out a development strategy aimed at securing much needed improvements in service performance on the enterprise cross-border rail service linking Dublin and Belfast.
An immediate problem that needs to be addressed is service reliability, a particular concern for business travellers. While the published figures on on-time performance indicate some improvement, far too often services are subject to long delays of up to and even exceeding an hour. These performance issues need to be addressed by the operators in the short-term if the service is to maintain the confidence of users.
In relation to the enterprise service generally, figures set out in the submission indicate modest growth in traffic levels with passenger numbers up by 2% in 2006.
However, the JBC submission points out that this is against the background of a long term trend of strong growth in cross border road traffic which has grown by 85% over a decade, corresponding to an annual average growth rate of over 6%. Taken together, the figures on rail patronage and road traffic lead to the conclusion that the number of cross border trips is growing strongly but that the rail share is being eroded.
JBC also point out that current journey times at 130 minutes are not competitive against journey times by road. If the enterprise service were to operate at the average speed currently achieved on other mainline services, journey time would be reduced by 15% to 110 mins. The introduction of non stop services would reduce journey times even further to around 100 minutes – a reduction of around one third on today’s performance.
I may be a bit late to this one, but I have to jump in here. I used to be a daily Enterprise commuter for 4 years and am now a Drogheda/ Balbriggan line communter. I absolutely agree with everything Mark said. While I was travelling on the Enterprise there wasn't a week that went by without some sort of delay, security alerts and otherwise, and at least once every three weeks there was a significant delay. Rarely was any information given to passengers. While it has improved in some ways - gone is the long winding boarding queue at Connolly and the makeshift hut at Newry - the last time I was on it I very nearly missed an important meeting due to a delay and the upholstery was so worn I would feel the metal underneath.
While the Drogheda line is far from perfect itself I have experienced nowhere near the same amount of delays since I have been using it. Although something could be done about the overcrowding, especially during rush hour - the 17.29 (now 17.35?) ex Connolly in particular.
sounds like its a case of IR making sure the commuter runs true and allowing the enterprise to be second, even third behind these commuter trains sharing the same line and the DART.
Colm Moore
23-11-2011, 01:18
JBC What is this? :)
Just completed a round trip on the Enterprise from Dublin to Belfast. I set out on Wednesday 13.20 and returned Thursday 10.35.
The train was jammed packed both ways even before it made it's first stop at Drogheda outbound Lisburn on the return. What is the need for two first class (plus) carriages when they are never filled? One would suffice with an extra carriage for standard fare pasengers, ended up standing much of the journey in the buffet car. The first class carriages were pretty much empty.
Seperately I must say, both of my journeys were on time and a smooth trip all round. However the three guards/inspectors on the train have a great time of it, they stood the whole journey in the buffet car chatting and laughing, I wasn't even asked for my ticket during the journey.
dowlingm
12-04-2012, 14:54
sounds like its a case of IR making sure the commuter runs true and allowing the enterprise to be second, even third behind these commuter trains sharing the same line and the DART.Reply to an old post I know but we actually know from the IE network statement that the Enterprise officially does have lower priority.Priority Order on Congested Infrastructure
Dublin Border
1 DART
2 Commuter
3 Intercity (Enterprise)
4 Freight
5 InfrastructureSo you won't get held for a tamper or a Tara but that's about it, on paper at least.
Reply to an old post I know but we actually know from the IE network statement that the Enterprise officially does have lower priority.So you won't get held for a tamper or a Tara but that's about it, on paper at least.
Hmmm, not great...
great potential for NIR/IR to make serious money on the spin of the titianic new visitors centre in belfast, they need to use all carriages available, not leave them at york road in belfast sidings, enterprise is full all the time, period!
dowlingm
12-04-2012, 15:27
yeah but one langerdan and his mates cause a security incident and the profits will drain away from bus hire charges.
I've said it for years - the Enterprise service should be removed from NIR *and* IE into a separate operation which could then enforce commercial contracts against them in respect of infrastructure availability. If only there had been even a tiny bit of imagination when HSBC Rail offered the Class 222s... but oh no, Cowen and Co were busy promising money for the A5 instead.
it's a pity... great potential, both my journeys on the enterprise recently was full of tourists using it travelling north/south vice versa.
it could do with a refurb mind you!
paid big bucks and can't even get a seat, they must over sell the seats, must do.
dowlingm
12-04-2012, 18:51
I think the sets are about 15 years in service now, a refresh would probably be welcome, add power sockets, wifi and whatnot, finally finish the generating van project so Enterprise liveried 201s wouldn't be found "having a rest" down south and so on.
A refit would involve pulling the existing trains from service at least piecemeal but there's always the Gatwick set to step in which NIR *insist* are still part of the service fleet :rolleyes:
Jamie2k9
12-04-2012, 19:13
The Mark 4 and 22000 will have a full refurb after 15 years in service but the ICR will get new engines every 4 years. Most lightly NIR and IR couldn't agree on the cost of the full refurb.
On the topic of Wi-Fi IR have not said anything about it coming to entreprise.
There has being one generating van spayed in Entreprise colours sitting in Heuston with months.
Colm Moore
12-04-2012, 19:13
finally finish the generating van project
That seems to be having marital problems - they're not talking to each other.
Mark Gleeson
12-04-2012, 21:17
A contract has been signed for wifi on Enterprise different supplier though compared to the main contract Irish Rail had. Can't name the company at this time though until a formal statement is issued.
Passenger numbers cross border are down, Enterprise is really a glorified commuter service which just happens to cross the border.
Seat reservations are available, a ticket is never a guarantee of a seat.
If you sit down and look at the numbers the bulk of the failures and delays are on the Northern Irish side.
It is without a question the worst cross border service I have travelled on.
A contract has been signed for wifi on Enterprise different supplier though compared to the main contract Irish Rail had. Can't name the company at this time though until a formal statement is issued.
Seat reservations are available, a ticket is never a guarantee of a seat.
If you sit down and look at the numbers the bulk of the failures and delays are on the Northern Irish side.
It is without a question the worst cross border service I have travelled on.
wi-fi stop the clock.
seat reservation no guarantee of a seat not good enough, when spare carriages are sitting at york road and first plus is never full, one of the first plus carriages could be taken out of each set and replaced with std class ones, spares in york rd.
Service, a tad harsh, it is a decent service but needs tweeking, i.e. wi-fi, re-fit/replacement or carriages, maybe an overhaul, possibly let someone else come in and run it as a whole, instead of NIR & IR
Inniskeen
13-04-2012, 09:43
A contract has been signed for wifi on Enterprise different supplier though compared to the main contract Irish Rail had. Can't name the company at this time though until a formal statement is issued.
Passenger numbers cross border are down, Enterprise is really a glorified commuter service which just happens to cross the border.
Seat reservations are available, a ticket is never a guarantee of a seat.
If you sit down and look at the numbers the bulk of the failures and delays are on the Northern Irish side.
It is without a question the worst cross border service I have travelled on.
You say passenger numbers cross-border are down - hardly a surprise given the three month closure of the line at Malahide. Before that the largely gratuitous disruptions associated with the Tolka bridge renewal and the so called DART upgrade project severely depressed weekend business due to the tsunami of weekend line closures. Add to that the laughable management and scheduling of services between Drogheda and Dublin and I think Irish Rail might well be in the picture when it comes to accessing the performance of the Enterprise service.
As regards cross-border numbers my understanding is that there has been a modest recovery in usage unlike many other routes that are either gently or preciptively declining.
As regards being a glorified commuter service what do you imagine the Galway, Waterford, Rosslare, Limerick and Sligo services are ? Whar about the 0505 from Cork or the 1900 or 2100 services from Heuston. More glorified commuter services perhaps ?
Yes the Irish Rail mantra is that all the problems with the Enterprise are the fault of NIR - as a regular user this is not my experience. While there are issues with the coaching stock from time to time, the Enterprise sets are probably the most intensively used rolling stock in the country, one set making three return Belfast/Dublin trips each day. While the ride quality is often poor (especially south of the border) it is not generally inferior to the Mk4s on the Cork line. Ambience wise (somewhat subject on my part) the De-Dietrich coaches are way better than the Mk4s.
Irish Rail are, I understand, responsible for locomotive maintenace. Not sure of the ratio of coaching stock issues to locomotive/head end power failures, but suffice it to say that locomotive failures are orders of magnitude more common than when the service was powered by 071/111 class locomotives.
To be a bit more positive there has been a noticeable improvement in punctuality in recent months due to a number of factors including a large reduction in the number of slacks south of the border and some shift in the Irish Rail's slowest train first policy. The smaller sets now standard (seven coaches instead of eight) also improve matters in terms of performance and presumeably stress on the HEP. Downside is heavy overcrowding at times particularly on the 1520, 1650 and 1900 services from Dublin and 0650 and 1035 from Belfast on weekdays as well as the busier Sunday services.
You say passenger numbers cross-border are down - hardly a surprise given the three month closure of the line at Malahide. Before that the largely gratuitous disruptions associated with the Tolka bridge renewal and the so called DART upgrade project severely depressed weekend business due to the tsunami of weekend line closures. Add to that the laughable management and scheduling of services between Drogheda and Dublin and I think Irish Rail might well be in the picture when it comes to accessing the performance of the Enterprise service.
As regards cross-border numbers my understanding is that there has been a modest recovery in usage unlike many other routes that are either gently or preciptively declining.
As regards being a glorified commuter service what do you imagine the Galway, Waterford, Rosslare, Limerick and Sligo services are ? Whar about the 0505 from Cork or the 1900 or 2100 services from Heuston. More glorified commuter services perhaps ?
Yes the Irish Rail mantra is that all the problems with the Enterprise are the fault of NIR - as a regular user this is not my experience. While there are issues with the coaching stock from time to time, the Enterprise sets are probably the most intensively used rolling stock in the country, one set making three return Belfast/Dublin trips each day. While the ride quality is often poor (especially south of the border) it is not generally inferior to the Mk4s on the Cork line. Ambience wise (somewhat subject on my part) the De-Dietrich coaches are way better than the Mk4s.
Irish Rail are, I understand, responsible for locomotive maintenace. Not sure of the ratio of coaching stock issues to locomotive/head end power failures, but suffice it to say that locomotive failures are orders of magnitude more common than when the service was powerd by 071/111 class locomotives.
To be a bit more positive there has been a noticeable improvement in punctuality in recent months due to a number of factors including a large reduction in the number of slacks south of the border and some shift in the Irish Rail's slowest train first policy.
here here!!
Thomas Ralph
13-04-2012, 10:09
Seat reservations are available, a ticket is never a guarantee of a seat.
Nor is a seat reservation, given that NIR doesn't put them out half the time!
Mark Gleeson
13-04-2012, 10:38
But at least you have recourse and the right to a refund if left standing
A Mark3 Generator Van operated a test entreprise service from Dublin-Belfast this evening.
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/22937840_8VgjnX#!i=1862312187&k=Jznz5Jh
dowlingm
23-05-2012, 01:26
how much space does the generator take up in an EGV? Could bikes be carried inside it for instance?
Colm Moore
23-05-2012, 04:46
Cleanliness and age aside, why is it so much lighter in colour than the other carriages? http://www.irishrail.ie/media/DeDietrich1.jpg
how much space does the generator take up in an EGV? Could bikes be carried inside it for instance?
I think its about 50:50 between storage space and generator, but the guard might also have a space of his own.
Enterprise DVTs have their own luggage / bike space.
dowlingm
23-05-2012, 17:32
Could that space in the DVT be converted to passenger or is it configured that way as part of crashworthiness? Considering how much time and money has been spent on these damn things (and they're still not in service so not holding out much hope here) it would be nice to see more than just HEP replacement out of them.
neoncircles
05-06-2012, 20:09
I travelled on the Enterprise this weekend owing to the 9.99 each way fares. I usually get the bus but chanced the train this time.
After reading alot of stuff on here I was dreading that it would be an awful experience but it was actually quite pleasant.
Train packed on Sunday (1300 ex Connolly), train host up and down the train throughout the journey. Arrived exactly on time. Train much quieter down today (1410 train), train host visible again. Found it to be much much more comfortable than the MK4's. They are quite shabby inside but no other complaints. Ride quality in NI noticeably better.
Much better than the bus so will use again without doubt
I used the 1300ex Dublin on Sunday last. I booked my ticket on line through Irish Rail. The service was very busy, however I had my seat reserved and thankfully this worked out well - though getting to my seat in good time proved to be a good idea. When checking in IR staff made no mention to sit on my reserved seat, nor was there any anouncements to refrain from sitting in reserved seats for other patrons.
Even though this particular service was very busy, this was helped by the fact that there was a TRANSLINK hostess on board who made clear regular on-board greetings and meeted and greeted pretty much everyone, asking people had they connecting trains to meet at either Portadown or Belfast Central. The comfort is still OK, given the fact that these trains are now coming on 17 years old. A little bumpy on the way up particulary up as far as Dundalk. Given the service was very busy we made it to belfast a few minutes ahead of schedule which was great as I had a connecting train to meet on the Londonderry line onwards from Belfast Central. May I add the train on this service was of pure pleasure, comfort, cleaniness & speed!
I returned on the 2005ex Belfast on Monday night. A very much quieter journey. This seemed to be managed by Irish Rail staff, the host was rarely seen, there were no announcements of any nature throughout the journey, tickets were only checked after Drogheda at this stage the train was even quieter.
Overall I must confess and give credit, as I've said given the fact the trains are nearly twenty years old, the two journeys I made were reasonably comfortable, punctual and reliable on this occasion. Irish Rail staff could help by being more informative around seat reservations, and announcements made on the train.
Destructix
04-06-2013, 10:36
Well just over 16 years old. The mk3's were just under 20 when they decided to replace them and given all the problems they are having with the De Dietrich sets they need to be withdrawn. Iarnród Éireann and Translink don't have the money to replace them or to even refurb them.
They should start using all the spare 22K dormant in Portlaoise depot.
Jamie2k9
04-06-2013, 12:01
They only have four spare sets of 22000 not a lot and not overly great for a Belfast service with no first class worth talking about. You could ask why don't NIR use their new trains. It's not just IE"s responsibility. It would also cost IE a lot more money unless NIR are going to pay to maintain the ICRs as they do the coaches on the enterprise. I don't see any need to replace them trains are still in good condition and any shakiness is track related more than train.
ACustomer
04-06-2013, 15:29
The De Deitrichs are are not that old (16 or 17 years) and may need some refurb, but not replacing. We have become used to very extravagant expenditure on new rolling stock in this country, and seem to overlook the durability of properly-maintained stock. The original Paris-Lyon TGV sets were built between 1978 and 1984, and are still going strong with at least one mid-life upgrade: rolling stock that old would have our pathetic journalists going on about clapped-out trains!
Colm Moore
04-06-2013, 23:17
The original Paris-Lyon TGV sets were built between 1978 and 1984, and are still going strong with at least one mid-life upgrade: rolling stock that old would have our pathetic journalists going on about clapped-out trains!I think some have been retires and some are used as mail trains. However, overall, they have a balanced fleet - we have the problem of our purchases either being too small or too large.
My post has somewhat been torn to shreds about an arguement over the condition of the current Enterprise fleet.
I was merely trying to give credit and to commend NIR & maybe a little bit Irish Rail on the service, as in general and particulary on this website both take a lot of unfair criticism.
Mark Gleeson
06-06-2013, 21:45
It gets a hard time as the service is a disgrace, the worst rail service I have had to misfortune to have to use
This evening, there was not a single enterprise train of any type (even the backup train Irish Rail rolled out to replace from 16:50 failure) in motion, one broke down in Connolly 16:50, one went on fire north of Newry 18:05 and the third was abandoned in Newry 19:00, as they needed the locomotive to move the train that had gone on fire. The replacement for the first breakdown, a 29k is stuck behind the train went on fire as the 20:10 ex Belfast
I'd bet good money it was the HEP and the Mk3 gen van would have prevented this.
Jamie2k9
06-06-2013, 22:00
It gets a hard time as the service is a disgrace, the worst rail service I have had to misfortune to have to use
This evening, there was not a single enterprise train of any type (even the backup train Irish Rail rolled out to replace from 16:50 failure) in motion, one broke down in Connolly 16:50, one went on fire north of Newry 18:05 and the third was abandoned in Newry 19:00, as they needed the locomotive to move the train that had gone on fire. The replacement for the first breakdown, a 29k is stuck behind the train went on fire as the 20:10 ex Belfast
I'd bet good money it was the HEP and the Mk3 gen van would have prevented this.
Wonder how much damage was caused to the locomotive
Those gen vans were due back this month, IE would want to get the finger out and get them sorted.
Mark Gleeson
06-06-2013, 22:10
Won't be seen again I'd imagine, lots of 201's lying around
208 died in Connolly, didn't appear to be a spare locomotive available, no sign of anyone working to fix it at 6pm
Jamie2k9
06-06-2013, 22:14
Won't be seen again I'd imagine, lots of 201's lying around
208 died in Connolly, didn't appear to be a spare locomotive available, no sign of anyone working to fix it at 6pm
The train was moved around 20.00, 207 AFAIK came to the rescue, what will the excuse for no spare loco at Connolly...
A lot of 201's doing freight at the minute but it still doesn't justify no spare at Connolly.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22805136
Thomas Ralph
06-06-2013, 22:44
I can't imagine there not being any spare 201s, it's all railcars except the Enterprise and most Dub/Cork these days. Can't the 071s do the freight?
Jamie2k9
06-06-2013, 22:58
There is loads of 201's that can operate PP, 21 in service which on an average weekday for passenger services 7 are require, 4 spare, 10 for freight/maintenance. There is no reason why a spare one wasn't in Connolly and add 230 out of that 21 as it will most likely not see passenger services again but will never be up North like 209 on HEP.
071's normally operate freight but some are having overhauls which is why 201's are being used.
Mark Gleeson
07-06-2013, 08:10
18:05 Belfast Dublin, went on fire just north of Newry
Train halted per rules
Unclear if the on train fire extinguishing system activated (the fire alarm did)
Despite media reports the locomotive was not separated from the train
Fire was contained within the locomotive and did not spread
Train was not carrying a generator van
Failure of light/AC and all secondary systems instantly, limited to battery
Evacuation was painfully slow and relied on the 20:05 from Belfast (already running 30 minutes late due earlier breakdown) to run alongside and use the wheelchair ramps, total 5 hour delay reaching Dublin
Utterly unacceptable, despite the serious nature Irish Rail made gave no formal statement as to the goings on.
It is unclear if EC1371/2007 was complied with, if it wasn't once evidence is gathered its time for a prosecution
James Howard
07-06-2013, 08:31
I have noticed over the last few years that Irish Rail appear to have no organised plans for breakdowns. Thankfully this seems to be pretty rare on the Sligo line but when it does happen, it takes an inordinate amount of time to rescue a breakdown.
I had a look at the Indo to see what idiotic drivel they had written on the incident and the article itself actually seemed to be mainly factual. I'm sure they'll get around to doing the dramatic stupid version in the next couple of hours. They do have a picture of a driving van at Newry captioned "The fire broke out in the engine of the train, which is similar to this one".
Thomas J Stamp
07-06-2013, 09:30
i guess that a week of hot weather + lots of Air Con demand + ever ageing engines just did them in yesterday.
Its not as if IE/Translink are not aware of the problem, as they have been trying to get the Mark3 Generator Van project to work for a long time now.
I know there has been a lot of hot weather since the mid 90's when this service started, but things are older, no matter how well you service something, the older it is the more likely something will go pop.
Then again, its not like every year irish rail are surprised by the onset of winter and suffer the frozen points problems, despite warmers being around for decades.
So it will be interesting to see if passengers add 2+2 and decide not to enter a lotto to see if their train will pop in hot weather, and if IE will move the PP fleet around a lot more frequently to help things out.
Mark Gleeson
07-06-2013, 10:43
Warm weather is certainly a factor, failure rate increases massively in Summer
Key problem is running the engine at full revs means the radiator is running at close to limit so if it gets clogged up or the locomotive gets stuck for a prolonged period it will overheat and die.
Alternatively in idle you get a risk of unburnt fuel in the exhaust silencer which in turn will go bang after a while.
Inniskeen
07-06-2013, 16:41
This is at least the 2nd in-service 201 class fire on the Enterprise. It will be interesting to see if this one was caused by an electrical fault or a build up of combustible residue in some part of the locomotive such as the exhaust stack.
Given the apparently excessive demands placed on these locomotives, can it be assumed they have a correspondingly intensive maintenance regime ?
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