When Dublin Led the World in Mass Transit

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

There was once a tram system in Dublin which was considered the most progressive and technically advanced in the world. Had integrated ticketing. Zonal fares. Integrated with bus services. Some routes operated until 2AM. Connected with all mainline rail stations. Carried 50 MILLION passengers in its final year.

Tragically it was shut down by the government following the whole thrust in the UK to close tram systems and replace them with buses, as buses were "more flexible" (which is a laugh as CIE/Dublin Bus services tended to be completely unflexible when look at the history). Although you can't blame CIE for wrecking the tram system as they tried to make a go of it after they took it over from the DUTC. The blame lies with Irish politicans who failed to understand nor care about commuters. There is a lesson in the lost of the Dublin Tram system which is worth remebering even today as we are still paying the price.

Anyway. Can anybody spot the location these photos were taken?

http://www.geocities.com/nigelfitzgricer/cie_tram1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/nigelfitzgricer/cie_tram2.jpg

[MrX]

The problem is pretty simple. Those old tram companies actually offered a service to customers, generally turned a profit and were very focused on what they're doing.

CIE however, has never understood the concept of the "customer". People who use trains/busses are "passengers" and they are simply something that gets in the way of the smooth running of the CIE network.

The level of service from various CIE companies has plummeted over the latter half of the 20th century. It seems that even in the 1960s they were doing better than they were in the late 90s.

Things are looking up though, it's just a matter of a change of mentality within the organisation.

As for the Government, I sometimes think they simply don't "get" public transport at all. It's not entirely about shiney new rolling stock, it's about decent planning, integration and efficiencies. The whole focus should be to make it as easy and friendly to use for the end user.

Also, public transit systems are only successful if they're friendly and efficient to use. If a mass transit system is badly run, infrequent, has rude staff, doesn't care etc people will vote with their feet and not use it. This then leads to low passenger numbers, lack of resources etc etc.

Cork's bus service is a prime example of this. The sligo rail service I'm sure is another one with its totally inappropriate rolling stock and years of neglect.

If the 3 transit operators in Dublin city got their act together, they could increase their revenues and general passenger number enormously.

Again look at the smart card fiasco. It seems that the government and the RPA were totally focused on the technology i.e. shiney new smart cards and not at all focused on the service they were trying to offer. The main issue was to get the fare structure etc into place. It didn't matter if they used the existing magnetic stripe cards, smart cards or bits of paper ! The entire focus was on the nearly irrelevant bit i.e. which technology to use ! End users more than likely won't give a damn what type of card's used as long as it works.

Until someone gets their priorities straight in the Department of Transport and the agencies responsible for public transit in this country there will simply be no progress. Just a disjointed system of shiney new high tech trains and busses that don't serve the correct places, run at stupid times and make no difference to the public!

The entire zonal system could be easily rolled out using the magstripe cards. I mean, they seem to be 100% compatable as it is considering that Luas machins can issue tickets that are readable on Dublin bus and IE turnstyles.
End of rant :)

[CSL]

dodder bridge in ballsbridge ?

[Mark Gleeson]

Bottom one is Dalkey

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Dalkey is indeed correct, for the second one as I found another image in a book with the location mentioned. I think the top one might be Kilmaingham, but can't say for certain.

This one below has me stumped as well. I think it might be along the coast.

http://www.geocities.com/nigelfitzgricer/cie_tram3.jpg

Isn't it amazing how we are all meant to fret for the closing of the Burma Road and the North Kerry line and yet in Dublin city a tram network which carried 50 million people a year right to the end is forgotton - until about a year ago I knew Dublin had a tram network, I had no idea how excellent and busy the system was.

Proves that the railway nostalgia imported into this country from the UK places the sleepy locomotive-hauled rural branch line as the most sacred aspect of Irish railways.

[alek smart]

I think the top pic is of a No 15 Tram inbound at Rathgar Road just after the Crossroads,The Block Built building is AFIR the old Public Convienence ....? :) Only a Guess.....?

[Mark Gleeson]

Thats the coast Rd from Dun Laoghaire to Sandycove

[Thomas J Stamp]

You will all recall what happend to the last "where is this?" thread.................

[Navan Junction]

Ah, but it is educational

[Oisin88]

The first photo is a number 15 tram passing the closed public toilet opposite the church on terenure road east. The road still looks nearly the same except for the colour. I think tram numbers turned into bus numbers so the 15 tram became the 15 bus, or navan junction might know it as the 15A :)

[Navan Junction]

navan junction might know it as the 15A :)
Ha! It's not Mullingar anyway..!:)

It's accross the road from the church

[Maynooth_Line]

As for the Government, I sometimes think they simply don't "get" public transport at all.

I totally agree. The reason for this I believe is that the so called "experts" and senior civil servants and Ministers don't actually use public transport. Being a regular user you can see so many ways that things could be made better. It isn't rocket science after all. But the people making the decisions don't get to see is from the user perspective and end up imagining and guessing what needs to be done.

[Derek Wheeler]

I totally agree. The reason for this I believe is that the so called "experts" and senior civil servants and Ministers don't actually use public transport. Being a regular user you can see so many ways that things could be made better. It isn't rocket science after all. But the people making the decisions don't get to see is from the user perspective and end up imagining and guessing what needs to be done.

Actually, I'd put forward the view that the civil service(transport sector) is now starting to recognise the importance of feedback from the public. The DOT have been far more accomodating to P11 than IE. An example is available shortly in the members section. The public consultation process enacted by the RPA in relation to Metro North has yielded a good return on input.

But overall the above post is pretty much the way things stand. It can improve though.

[Maynooth_Line]

Actually, I'd put forward the view that the civil service(transport sector) is now starting to recognise the importance of feedback from the public. The DOT have been far more accomodating to P11 than IE. An example is available shortly in the members section. The public consultation process enacted by the RPA in relation to Metro North has yielded a good return on input.

But overall the above post is pretty much the way things stand. It can improve though.

True enough, thats the advantage I suppose of dealing with relatively new bodies like the RPA where legacy issues don't arise and they're not as stuck to their ways. The staff in the DoT are being paid enough through benchmarking to change their ways!