View Full Version : Timing Statistics
James Howard
09-11-2009, 19:35
I commute from Edgeworthstown and noticed today that the stats for the Sligo line are showing 85% on-time for the last 6 weeks or so.
This is complete fantasy. Over the last six weeks, I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have been less than 15 minutes late on an evening train. What I would give for 85% on-time! It seems to me that peak-time on-time would be a more realistic figure anyway.
Apart from the last two weeks' bridge replacement, does anyone know what is going on with Sligo/Longford evening commuter services. It doesn't feel like there is much of a leaf-slip issue between Connolly and Edgeworthstown.
Mark Gleeson
09-11-2009, 20:34
We actually are working on getting the arrival times of all trains on the Sligo line into Dublin to perform an independent evaluation of the on time performance. Initial results suggest Irish Rail's numbers to be generous at best. Irish Rail deny any failings in their numbers. Numbers were pretty bad during the bridge works.
We don't have the ability to record arrivals in Longford or Sligo (yet), keep a log and let us know so we can add the data to our own.
The posters claim the results are audited, but Irish Rail don't actual have a 3rd party audit them, that happens months later by the department of transport.
Good news of sorts is under EU law coming in December, monthly and annual ticket holders are entitled to a refund/discount for consistent performance failures. We just need to prove the poor performance.
Have a read of this to see the kind of underhand tactics that are employed http://www.railusers.ie/news/news.php?year=2009&no=13.html
would have liked to see if the 6.43 Enfield - Pearse was classified as on time today.
As we sat in Connolly till at least 7.50 waiting on the new driver to arrive.
We were there for a good 5 mins waiting on the driver.
When he did he was strolling up the platform like he was in no rush.
drumcondra commuter
10-11-2009, 09:06
Not sure if this is relevant but the commuter to Maynooth trains have been bang on time this last week.
Gorey trains have been late a good few times recently, especially the 16:40 from Connolly to Gorey, this is usually running between 10 and 15 minutes late
Mark Gleeson
10-11-2009, 16:06
Email in specific details, date,time,location and the train details and we can add it into the database. We have everything into Connolly covered currently
James Howard
12-11-2009, 09:56
Yesterday and today not good as usual although we made Edgeworthstown with about 15 seconds to spare for officially late. I suspect that the stats may not be that far out of whack given the notion that 9 minutes and 59 seconds is not late. However, this morning was good and late - no idea why.
What is odd is that they are recording greater than 99% reliability and puntuality for the Belfast line on posters in Connolly. Exactly what sort of methodology have they used to establish that given that not a single train has arrived at Connolly from Belfast for 2 months?
Mark Gleeson
12-11-2009, 10:14
Irish Rail work on the basis of if no one notices a cancellation, the train wasn't cancelled.
End of the day, if Irish Rail had confidence in their numbers they wouldn't have a problem releasing them, they refuse every single time and the numbers we have gathered so far exposes the Irish Rail numbers as being extremely misleading
Only 38% of Sligo services arrived Dublin within 10 minutes yesterday
James Howard
16-11-2009, 07:59
Actual arrival times in brackets. Two out of four meet IE's definition of on time (8 minutes and 9 minutes late). Monday was also more than 10 minutes late but I didn't record it.
10/11: 1809 Pearse - 2007 Edgeworthstown (2015)
11/11: 1805 Connolly (1805) - 1934 Edgeworthstown (1943)
12/11: 1805 Connolly (1806) - 1914 Mullingar (1925) - 1934 Edgeworthstown (1944) - Long wait at Killucan for up-train
13/11: 1805 Connolly (1806) - 1914 Mullingar (1924) - 1934 Edgeworthstown (1944) - Slow going to Maynooth, probably behind a stopping train
Actual arrival times in brackets. Two out of four meet IE's definition of on time (8 minutes and 9 minutes late). Monday was also more than 10 minutes late but I didn't record it.
10/11: 1809 Pearse - 2007 Edgeworthstown (2015)
11/11: 1805 Connolly (1805) - 1934 Edgeworthstown (1943)
12/11: 1805 Connolly (1806) - 1914 Mullingar (1925) - 1934 Edgeworthstown (1944) - Long wait at Killucan for up-train
13/11: 1805 Connolly (1806) - 1914 Mullingar (1924) - 1934 Edgeworthstown (1944) - Slow going to Maynooth, probably behind a stopping train
Going the other way, Friday's 19:05 Dublin - Sligo:
Maynooth: 19:48
Kilcock: 19:56
Enfield: 20:07
Mullingar: 20:32
Longford: 21:08
Dromod: 21:22
Carrick: 21:36
Yesterday's 1500 Sligo - Connolly arrived into Connolly at 1930, 90 minutes late.
The 1905 Connolly - Sligo left Connolly @ 2000, 55 minutes late and arrived into Mullingar @ 2115, 58 minutes late.
Extra time lost due to sitting outside Maynooth waiting for the 1700 Sligo - Connolly to cross, which it did at approx. 2035, which means that it must've been about an hour late into Connolly.
I heard no PA announcements apologising for/explaining the delay while waiting for the 1905, you'd think that's the least they could do :mad:
jscales1
20-11-2009, 16:17
The train left Connolly on time and was going okay until Enfield. There was an announcement stating that the train would have to reverse out of the loop to allow the 13:00 from Sligo use the platform. The train was waiting in Enfield for 25 minutes. I could not believe that with all the carpark works completed recently in Enfield that they could not get the money to put in a platform opposite the current platform to allow train passengers to disembark the train in cases as we have seen in the this week. Then when the train arrived in Mullingar 16:35 I assumed it would wait for the 15:00 from Sligo to pass but it continued on its journey to Edgeworthtown so the 15:00 from Sligo must have been waiting 30 minutes for the 15:00 ex Connolly to pass by instead of giving the 15:00 from Sligo green light at Edgeworthtown and allowing it to make up time. The Sligo service is a mess when things go wrong and will suffer for this
it is time for some double tracking between Mullingar and Edgeworthtown even a mile or so of double tracking to allow the trains pass one another and reduce journey times
James Howard
20-11-2009, 19:50
I haven't bothered noting anything this week as everything has been 30 minutes late minimum apart from Monday morning.
Today took the proverbial however, 25 minutes in Killucan waiting for an up-train. I cannot understand why they every keep a busy evening down-train waiting in Killucan. It is only a 5 minute run into Mullingar and whatever train you are meeting generally has about 20 passengers on it.
Hear,Hear. ive had enough of this mess. It was generally ok until mid summer. Mark, is there anyrging we can do to get the evening killucan issue raised with IE. We should just be a able to meet/pass the uptrain in Mullingar as its that late every evening. Its now the norm.
Mark Gleeson
22-11-2009, 19:57
Once we have stats then we can make a case. Current stats are down at 66% within 10 minutes which is utterly appalling
The platform in Enfield is the weak link, this wait in Killucan is not acceptable
Friday evening's 1905 Connolly - Sligo left Connolly approx 1920 arrived Mullingar 2030. This is about a normal arrival for the 1905 in Mullingar as it has to wait for 10-15 minutes outside Maynooth every night for the Sligo - Connolly train to cross (the same train that delays the 1805 Connolly - Longford in Killucan).
The 1905 is normally a 2 * 3-car 22k. On Friday, the busiest day of the week, it was a single 3 car 22k. I don't think the train could physically have taken many more people than it left Connolly with.
Mark Gleeson
23-11-2009, 11:12
Looked at the numbers and the 18:05 situation is interesting
The 18:05 shouldn't exist at all, the train ahead of it arrives Mullingar at more or less the same time the 18:05 arrives Killucan. The train ahead cannot leave Mullingar unless the 17:00 from Sligo arrives.
If you let the 18:05 depart Killucan you end up with 3 trains at once in Mullingar
Given the volumes of passengers on the Mullingar - Maynooth section, restoration of the second track is justified and that combined with higher speeds would eliminate much of the troubles
I know the situation the country is in, but is there any plans for the redoubling of that section, including proper turn-back facilities at Maynooth, etc...
Mark
The 17:15 should be in Mullingar at 18:42 not 19:00 as is at present according to the time table. The uptrain to Dublin from sligo
holds
The 17:15 connolly to Longford at Mullingar
The 18:05 connolly to Longford at Killucan and
The 19:05 Connolly to Sligo at Maynooth.
Couldnt this be moved to a later time post rush-hour in Dublin?
North and eastern line commuters dont have to put up with this kind of rubbish. Sligo problems just seem to be accepted. IE are ripping us off for the cost we pay for annual tickets.
The 18:05 has a greater number of commuters getting off at stations after Maynooth when compared to the 17:15. If a service was to be dropped then it should be the 17:15.
The 17:15 should be in Mullingar at 18:42 not 19:00 as is at present according to the time table. The uptrain to Dublin from sligo
holds
The 17:15 connolly to Longford at Mullingar
The 18:05 connolly to Longford at Killucan and
The 19:05 Connolly to Sligo at Maynooth.
The uptrain also delays the 1734 Bray-Longford (1818 from Connolly) at Enfield.
dowlingm
23-11-2009, 20:14
Is the problem with Enfield's platform that the station is located on a bend? The 2005 overhead seems to indicate space east of the existing station to relocate but presumably that has all been blitzed with estates since.
Colm Moore
23-11-2009, 20:51
Given the volumes of passengers on the Mullingar - Maynooth section, restoration of the second track is justified and that combined with higher speeds would eliminate much of the troublesEven partial double tracking would solve a lot of the problems.
Arrived in maynooth on time at 18:35. At 18:40 driver said there would be another 20 minutes wait for uptrain from Sligo.
18:05 then taken out of service at 18:50. All passengers told to get off and wait for 18:15 to Longford which would terminate in mgar.
18:15 arr maynooth at 18:58 and departed at 19:05.
This is now beyond a joke. commuters beyond maynooth have had enough of this crap service. No trains ontime fir the last month. How can we get refunds for annual tickets?
cullenswood
27-11-2009, 22:34
I commute from Enfield and have now given up my annual ticket and have started using a private bus company. Far more reliable and quicker than the train!
Again the 18:05 held at killucan fir 20 mins in the 30/11.
What time does that bus leave Enfield in the morning and depart Dublin in the evening ?
5.45 Longford - Pearse arrived in Pearse at 7.54 even though it left Drumcondra around 7.34.
I would guess if IR do their stats on Connolly it would be on time but if they go by Pearse it will be late.
I wonder which one they will use?
cullenswood
02-12-2009, 13:53
Again the 18:05 held at killucan fir 20 mins in the 30/11.
What time does that bus leave Enfield in the morning and depart Dublin in the evening ?
there are loads that leave Enfield in the mornings.
I get the Kearns ones which are the fastest and most reliable I think. 25 euro for a 10 journey tickets.
See here for timetable.
http://www.kearnstransport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2
How long does the bus take in the evening to Enfield?
cullenswood
02-12-2009, 15:24
How long does the bus take in the evening to Enfield?
About 45 to 50 mins max. It goes from the Ha'penny Bridge so misses all the traffic on the quays before O'Connell St, and then there are bus lanes the rest of the way
James Howard
04-12-2009, 19:46
Luckily I've been travelling for work this week so have only had to travel three times but every evening train I've been on has been a minimum of a half an hour late. I am now sitting in Mullingar at 19:43 on the 18:05 from Connolly.
I am fairly consistent about pestering them for vouchers for an hour delay but the one feature of the last month is that not one train I have been on has been an hour late. But pretty much every day I have spent an hour extra on the train between the two trips.
When they get the line re-opened I am going to start pestering them about claiming a partial refund for this. It isn't going to achieve anything but if everyone starts doing it, it will at least cost them some effort and stamps.
I know that basically there is nothing can be done to reopen the line until the floods drain, but a number of possible solutions spring to mind. They could look at having the up-trains leave Sligo 15 minutes early to ensure that the timings for meeting trains work. Perhaps just cancelling a mid-afternoon train each way for the duration would also allow the timings to catch up for the evening rush. Or just run one or two evening up trains all the way by bus to keep the way clear for the busy down-trains.
What particularly sticks in my craw is sitting in Killucan for 20 minutes to meet an up-train with about 15 passengers. Particularly when it takes about 7 minutes to get to Mullingar.
There! Rant over and I feel a bit better
Well said James. I agree with everything you posted. One would think Irish rail would come up with a solution to such problems. However common sense seems to be in short supply in that company.
By the way where can I get the forms to claim refunds for late trains. ?
Thomas Ralph
07-12-2009, 16:15
You can get the form at any station, or download it from http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/refunds.php.
5.45 Longford - Pearse was a couple of mins late into Maynooth but 20 minutes into Pearse. Was about 9-10 mins late into Connolly.
5.45 Longford - Pearse arrived in Maynooth at 7.10 and got to Tara Street at 7.56.
On days like this can the 7.15 from Maynooth - Connolly not be moved forward to become the 6.58 from Maynooth - Pearse?
Arrived outside Enfield on time 17:50
stopped for 10 mins then reversed 1km back to Dublin.
Then let into Enfield to let off passengers. Then reversed 1km again to let Sligo Dublin train into Enfield . Another 10 minute wait. Then passed through station.
Held for a total of 15 mins at 2 new level crossings outside killucan(could this work not have been postponed until after flooding has receeded)
Arrived mgar at 18:50.
It gets better every day!!
James Howard
10-12-2009, 13:27
I didn't travel yesterday but this morning's 0545 from Sligo was only about 15 minutes late into Connolly and Tuesday's 1805 from Connolly was only 12 minutes late into Edgeworthstown which is the best timing I have had in over a month.
Somebody was out with a clipboard in Edgeworthstown this morning. The train was 13 minutes late in case anybody actually sees the statistics. I am still waiting on the big poster showing the on-time statistic for November. Oddly enough, there is no sign of it yet.
Not much in the line of updates. Sometime on Tuesday somebody went back in time to the 1st of December and updated the travel alert to say that bus transfers were now between Sligo and Dromod and that there would be delays for rest of this week. No mention of it on Twitter and I disconnected from the Facebook thingy as I don't like being a "Fan" of IE.
What is the point of having website, Twitter and Facebook updates if you aren't sending the same content to them all? That way you have to check three places rather than being able to choose your favourite.
Mark Gleeson
10-12-2009, 13:42
The guy with clipboard was part of the DTO annual commuter census
With the Sligo line closed it is inevitable that there will be delays with the bus transfers. They are now running from Dromod
The 07.05 service to Sligo arrived into Longford at 9.21 this morning.
James Howard
10-12-2009, 18:17
but delays aren't strictly inevitable.
When they were doing the bridge replacement about a month ago it was nowhere near as bad because they decided to run out of Sligo 15 minutes early. The result of this was that the trains kept the timetable after Longford and so everything lined up for passing.
I don't understand why they don't just do this again until the line re-opens.
Normal service resumedon Sligo line yesterday but nothing has changed
18:05 to Longford still had 20 min wait at killucan yesterday.
5:45 Sligo - Dublin was 45 mins late into mullingar today . I asked station master for the reason- driver didn't get out of bed!!
Unbelieveable!!!!
James Howard
15-12-2009, 19:11
I took a picture of the statistics poster for November and everybody's watches must have been fast because 87% of Sligo line trains were on time in November.
So we should all stop moaning and stop wasting their time - just like the nice lady from Iarnrod Eireann told me when replying to my complaint.
Colm Moore
15-12-2009, 20:13
Thats interesting seeing as for the 5 days there were no train services to Sligo, with buses operating, due to the bridge replacement.
http://railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=10798
http://railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=11004
Then from the 18 November into December again there were no trains west of the Shannon, with buses operating, due to flooding.
http://railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=11129
http://railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=11439
On the 20 November the 1705 left late
http://railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=11166
On the 26 November the morning train from Sligo was delayed http://railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=11226
Colm Moore
15-12-2009, 23:19
Interesting to see the notice about the Sligo Line being reopened again disappeared in the last few hours.
James Howard
16-12-2009, 08:46
0545 from Sligo arrived into Connolly at least 30 minutes late.
1905 from Connolly pretty typical.
As usual its arrival at Maynooth came as a complete surprise to Iarnrod Eireann so we were about 15 minutes late leaving Maynooth. Why they can't fix this timetable problem which is going back three years is beyond me. They could easily make the 1905 leave at 1915 without making the slightest difference to its arrival time anywhere.
He makes up almost all of the 15 minutes between Maynooth and Edgeworthstown thanks to ridiculous timetable padding but then spend another 10 minutes waiting for signal to get into Edgeworthsdown for a typical 2052 arriveal which should be 2036.
James Howard
16-12-2009, 09:08
The 0545 from Sligo this morning arrived into Connolly only about 3 minutes late by my watch. That makes it the second train I've been on in the last month that meets IE's definition of being on time
drumcondra commuter
05-01-2010, 09:51
810 ex Drumcondra was a full ten minutes late this morning and had Ballyhaunis on the front display - and no station announcements on board. The lateness may have been due to the non-stopping train heading for Clonsilla which naturally had....Maynooth on the front display.
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