Malahide viaduct

[Thomas Ralph]

Due to subsidence of the viaduct at Malahide, there are no services between Howth Junction and Skerries until further notice. Dublin Bus is honouring train tickets in the affected area. Other DART services may be subject to variation.

[ofjames]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0821/rail.html

[Mark Gleeson]

Have to wait for the video but it sounds extremely bad

The description is that of the embankment and not the viaduct itself. Very serious and may take days if not weeks to sort out depending on how bad it is. I'd assume the safety people from the RAIU are on the way out to see it as well

Due track layout in Malahide it can't be used as a terminus really, will have to wait on precise details

[losexpectation]

Iarnród Éireann says initial indications are that subsidence caused an embankment to collapse and that the damage appears to be quite bad.

so how long is it going to take to repair?

[ThomasJ]

According to irish rail northern commuter services are suspended until further notice with bus transfers are being arranged for dublin belfast

Notice is advising passengers to use dublin bus or bus eireann but not saying whether or not rail tickets will be accepted

[Mark Gleeson]

For reference the station level displays are saying ticket valid on Dublin Bus

They also imply services are running Skerries-Drogheda/Dundalk

[ThomasJ]

Any idea what could have caused this ? Record rainfall for july ? Soaked soil ?

[Kilocharlie]

A 20m section of the Viaduct collapsed - pictures on RTE web. Very serious with rails in mid-air and a derailment only narrowly avoided according to RTE.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0821/rail.html

[losexpectation]

pics now,http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0821/rail.html, total collapse of sections

[Mark Gleeson]

Looks like the very centre span collapsed, pier on the right looks to have collapsed as well

Very serious, could be weeks to repair

I have the engineering details of the viaduct somewhere at home, they could prove interesting. The piers the bridge is carried on appear to be the originals. Scour from the tidal flows has always been a problem

[Mark Gleeson]

At least Irish Rail seem to be making an effort of sorts

21st August: Major disruption to Northern Commuter, and Belfast Enterprise services by Corporate Communications

UPDATE 21.15HRS, Friday 21st August

There is significant disruption to Northern commuter, and Belfast Enterprise services due to a serious incident in which a 20 metre section of the viaduct has given way across Broadmeadow estuary, north of Malahide this evening. The incident occurred shortly before 18.30hrs this evening.

An investigation into this extremely serious incident is underway.

Services:

Northern commuter services are seriously disrupted. A shuttle rail service is currently operating between Drogheda and Skerries only. Customers travelling between Dublin city and all stations north of Malahide are advised to travel by Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann services.

Belfast Enterprise services will operate with train services between Belfast and Drogheda, and with bus transfers between Drogheda and Connolly, with resulting delays.

These arrangements will continue tomorrow, and weekday service details for next week are being arranged.

DART services between Malahide and Howth Junction have resumed, and are operating normally.

Due to the severe damage to the viaduct, we regret to inform customers that the line across the estuary will not reopen for, at the very least, several weeks, with resulting disruption continuing.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for the inconvenience caused.

[Bluetonic]

There has been 'spring tides' the last few days.

Extremely high tides. Further up the coast at Balbriggan it's was as high as I've seen it in recent years, if as high as ever.

[tigger1962]

so commuter chaos for the next few weeks :( wonder how they'll handle the annual/monthly commuter ticket holders!

[Charlie Hungerford]

The description is that of the embankment and not the viaduct itself. Very serious and may take days if not weeks to sort out depending on how bad it is. I'd assume the safety people from the RAIU are on the way out to see it as well

I think the RAIU people are going to be swarming around this issue like flies - that's an absolutely catastrophic failure!

[James Shields]

Looks bad, alright. Not looking forward to several weeks of bus transfers to work. :-(

It's very lucky the driver who spotted it managed to stop in time, or a very serious incident could have arisen.

[losexpectation]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/catb/3843727118/

[Rashers]

We will see how good the contingency plans are. I know the time of the Skerries freight derailment, there was chaos with lots of mis-information.
There were no extra buses put on, and the Dublin Buses were full from towns like Balbriggan, so no one else got on en-route.
I tried to get a taxi to Malahide, but that took an hour as so many people ended up driving.
I really hope they have learnt from all the past mistakes.
I fully acknowledge this is on the serious end of the scale in terms of impact, but call in the army of whoever, if they do not have the skills/capacity.
Time will tell.
They will need a lot of buses to start transporting people in from Skerries. And will they bring them just to Malahide, or to the city centre?
Assuming they get the buses, not sure how you 'fast track' them along the M1 to the Port Tunnel, and into the city centre.

[Jister]

If it happened in the dark it would not have been spotted I would imagine. If it happened in another month or so it would have been dark at 6pm!!!!

A shockingly close call.

[Mark Gleeson]

Whats even scarier is there was an even closer call within the last month.

Exceptionally lucky today, the consequences of a full 8 coach 29k railcar rolling off the viaduct are too shocking to imagine.

[ThomasJ]

latest @22.30hrs

21st August: Major disruption to Northern Commuter, and Belfast Enterprise services by Corporate Communications


UPDATE 22.30HRS, Friday 21st August

There is significant disruption to Northern commuter, and Belfast Enterprise services due to a serious incident in which a 20 metre section of the viaduct has given way across Broadmeadow estuary, north of Malahide this evening. The incident occurred shortly before 18.30hrs this evening.

An investigation into this extremely serious incident is underway.

Services:

Northern commuter services are seriously disrupted. A shuttle rail service is currently operating between Drogheda and Skerries only. Customers travelling between Dublin city and all stations north of Malahide are advised to travel by Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann services.

Saturday: Trains will operate between Dundalk/Drogheda and Skerries as follows:

Depart Drogheda: 06.30, 07.30 (starts from Dundalk 07.03), 08.30, 09.30 (starts from Dundalk 09.55), 11.30, 13.30, 15.30, 17.30, 19.30, 21.30

Depart Skerries: 07.00, 08.00, 09.00, 10.00, 11.00, 12.00, 14.00, 16.00, 18.00, 20.00, 22.00

Further services for Dundalk will be confirmed later.

Please note again that customers travelling between Dublin city and all stations north of Malahide are advised to travel by Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann services on Saturday.

Belfast Enterprise services will operate with train services between Belfast and Drogheda, and with bus transfers between Drogheda and Connolly, with resulting delays.

These arrangements will continue tomorrow, and weekday service details for next week are being arranged.

DART services between Malahide and Howth Junction have resumed, and are operating normally.

Due to the severe damage to the viaduct, we regret to inform customers that the line across the estuary will not reopen for, at the very least, several weeks, with resulting disruption continuing.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for the inconvenience caused.



now it would be helpful to know how to get from malahide to skerries best i know is sutton-swords village-skerries (102 and 33-although you might be a few minutes walk from off the bus to skerries rail station)

[ThomasJ]

RTE now reporting the driver of that train drove on to malahide and them reported it :eek:

[on the move]

If it happened in the dark it would not have been spotted I would imagine. If it happened in another month or so it would have been dark at 6pm!!!!

A shockingly close call.

6.00 will be bright enough to see issues until the clocks go back. I'm not due to use that section of the line until early October, so hopefully it will be fixed by then.

Lucky the driver spotted it in time. That's a full speed, flat out area of the track. I hope IR have learned their lesson from the Cahir viaduct collapse a few years ago.

[Mark Hennessy]

Thank heavens no one was hurt today, thats all I can say.

Absolutely shocking images, we can only hope there is an engineering explanation as to why this could happen so suddenly, if not there are massive safety questions to be asked of IE.

[karlr42]

RTE now reporting the driver of that train drove on to malahide and them reported it :eek:
I read this too, if true does it mean the driver proceeded over the viaduct? Possibly he was unable to stop in time. Presumably it will all become clear at a later stage.

[on the move]

The worst place for such a thing to happen would be the Boyne Viaduct, where it's a 30-metre drop into the water.

All viaducts should be regularly and thoroughly inspected.

[sublimity]

Yep, shocking images really and very scary.

Now everyone should be on red alert along the wicklow and wexford coast too...

[ThomasJ]

Yep, shocking images really and very scary.

Now everyone should be on red alert along the wicklow and wexford coast too...

True i always wondered if the platform at leixlip would subside but that is a drop in the ocean [excuse the pun ] compared to the northern and east south eastern line [DART AND Rosslare line ] i shudder to think of the consequences.

[weehamster]

Jeasus H Christ, this is serious problem. I can't state enough how lucky this whole thing was. :eek: This will take a month or 3 to repair. And depending how serious condition the rest of the bridges are. Again....:eek:

[Mark Hennessy]

Right engineers, any idea how a span can just collapse?

http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/1113/9cc5fd1bdc9e4e76a30d92c548cd9360.jpg

Is this the part most affected by tides?

Also, how does a driver on a south bound service cross this and then report the issue?

[losexpectation]

heres a clue
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.458741,-6.155498&spn=0.004797,0.013937&t=h&z=17

[Mark Gleeson]

There curiously was a 29k in the Dublin bound platform in Malahide. The radio telephone would work fine on the bridge. no way a train would get across the bridge in its current state

Each track has its own span possibly one collapsed before the other

[weehamster]

Ladies, any service will not operate for a good while over this section until a proper survey is carried out on the rest of the structure. We really don't know if a proper 'modern' detailed survey was ever carried out on this section. As stated already, the tidal forces would be strong at this section.

Oh wow, I think IÉ is in the deep shi*e over this. This is as far as I'm concerned, totally unforgivable, especially considering the DART extension to Drogheda :mad:

[Mark Gleeson]

We are looking at months here, probably 3 at minimum. It takes concrete 28 days to reach full strength and a steel option is workable in that exposed location

[weehamster]

Mark we really need you now to ask the tough questions to IÉ over this. This could have been really serious. I am talking about possible deaths here.
http://dynimg.rte.ie/000288d410dr.jpg

[Mark Gleeson]

Press release is just finished. Something went wrong an underlying fault in the bridge was missed, there is a history of scour problems. We are very lucky to escape this time. IE built, own and maintain the bridge so unless it was blown up or an earthquake (both highly unlikely) its IE's fault

For the last few years off the record its always been 'there's a big one coming', sadly there will be an fatality accident. This was not the closest to a fatality incident in the last month, a member of staff came within seconds of death on board a passenger service.

[weehamster]

Sorry Mark, but if it wasn't for the very basic cop-on of the driver, this would have been serious. But as you have stated there has been other 'close calls'. how long until...

I really feel sick to the stomach over this. Are us Irish really that incapable or running a rail services safely, let alone efficiently.

[Mark Hennessy]

Related to this now, but how will the commuter trains that are normally sent to Drogheda be serviced and fixed now?

Does that mean that other services will suffer as they are cut off now from access to the depot for many weeks at least?

[Aphfaneire]

It's extreemly lucky that those 50 passengers on the Balbriggan to Connolly train were safe.


The driver noticed a subsidance on the obosite side of the track as he passed.

So he stopped and called in, and soon after it all collapsed.


Scary to think how frequently hundreds of people rocket over that section.

A full, proper rush hour train either south in the morning or north in the evening would have hundreds of people on board. It could have been unbelievably horrific.



But those 50 are safe and probably didn't even notice.


As for what will happen now i'm just shocked at the implications.


My mother and myself have to figure out the best way to get from Drogheda to Dublin.

Our current thinking is take the car to Portmarnock.

Or get the 101 from Drogheda and Park in the station.

Overall i don't know what kind of service's and extra buses they will run but it will be a disaster to organise.


The Skerries Freight Derailment last year was poorly managed to say the least.

This could also be.

What are the Bus contingency plans?


Will Donabate North to Skerries/Balbriggan also recieve shuttle Trains to A unified bus point or extra buses into dublin at stations not capable of handling the traffic.



How will the fleet be maintained over 3 weeks?


There has to be several trains stuck in Dublin. At least 4 or so maybe even more, that can't get back to Drogheda for Repairs.


All other 29k's shared with Southern Commuter service's and Maynooth Service's will also be out of luck.

Thankfully most of the 22k's are now running so this isn't that many, but it puts massive pressure on the Maintenance facilities in Dublin, Ie Connolly.

Will Trains be sent west for repair??

And why is the Enterprise fully suspended? Surely at least 2 remain up north?

There is 5 or so engines and 4 set's of carriage's. NI and IE can easily spare Northern Line trains to keep the Business of Enterprise going between Drogheda and Belfast, or even as far south as Skerries/Balbriggan.


Sending a coach as far north as Belfast directly is a waste of petrol and capacity. Transferring to remaining trains earlier will save time and allow more people to head back to Dublin.






There's far to many issue's to think about.

This is going to be awful!:confused:

[ThomasJ]

UPDATE 13.00HRS, 22ND AUGUST Ongoing major disruption to Northern Commuter, and Belfast Enterprise by Corporate Communications


UPDATE 13.00hrs, Saturday 22nd August

There is significant disruption to Northern commuter, and Belfast Enterprise services due to a serious incident in which a 20 metre section of the viaduct has given way across Broadmeadow estuary, north of Malahide yesterday evening. The incident occurred shortly before 18.30hrs on Friday.

An investigation into this extremely serious incident is underway.

Services:

Northern commuter services are seriously disrupted. A shuttle rail service is currently operating between Drogheda and Skerries only. Customers travelling between Dublin city and all stations north of Malahide are advised to travel by Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann services.

Saturday: Trains will operate between Dundalk/Drogheda and Skerries as follows:

Depart Drogheda: 06.30, 07.30 (starts from Dundalk 07.03), 08.30, 09.30 (starts from Dundalk 09.55), 11.30, 13.30, 15.30, 17.30, 19.30, 21.30

Depart Skerries: 07.00, 08.00, 09.00, 10.00, 11.00, 12.00, 14.00, 16.00, 18.00, 20.00, 22.00

Further services for Dundalk will be confirmed later.

Please note again that customers travelling between Dublin city and all stations north of Malahide are advised to travel by Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann services on Saturday.

Sunday services will be confirmed shortly.

WEEKDAY COMMUTER SERVICES

Iarnród Éireann are working with Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann to provide enhanced services on existing routes serving the communities affected. Dublin Bus will enhance the No 33 routes serving the Balbriggan, Skerries, Rush & Lusk and Donabate areas, including use of the Dublin Port Tunnel. Details of these services, and service arrangements for customers between Dundalk and Gormanstown, will be confirmed as soon as possible.

In addition, a rail service will operate between Dundalk/Drogheda and Skerries.



For the duration of the disruption, Belfast Enterprise services will operate with train services between Belfast and Drogheda, and with bus transfers between Drogheda and Connolly, with resulting delays.

DART services between Malahide and Howth Junction are operating normally.

Due to the severe damage to the viaduct, we regret to inform customers that the line across the estuary will not reopen for at least three months, with resulting disruption continuing.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for the inconvenience caused.


<< Back



its gonna be a long winter for some! :eek: :(

[ThomasJ]

A bit of media reaction and the mystery of whether or not the driver stopped might be solved, it seems it may have been subsiding as he crossed the bridge!
Independent http://www.independent.ie/national-news/packed-train-seconds-from-disaster-in-bridge-collapse-1866930.html

Packed train seconds from disaster in bridge collapse

By Allison Bray

Saturday August 22 2009

TWO rush-hour commuter trains packed with hundreds of passengers were just seconds away from disaster last night when a section of track dramatically plunged into the water moments after they passed over it.

Miraculously, nobody was killed after a 20-metre section of viaduct over Malahide estuary collapsed on the main Dublin-Belfast line seconds after a driver pulled into Malahide station in north Dublin.

But travel chaos ensued for hundreds of passengers stranded in Malahide and major disruption is expected in the weeks to come. The bridge sank into the fast flowing water of the estuary -- just after a train from Balbriggan to Dublin city centre crossed over at about 6.25pm.

And less than five minutes before that, a full northbound commuter train with hundreds of passengers on board passed over the viaduct, at 6.20pm en route to Dundalk.

Subsidence on the line at the Malahide estuary is believed to be the cause of the viaduct collapse. Irish Rail spokesman Barry Kenny said the incident was very serious and could have resulted in widespread tragedy were it not for a quick-thinking train driver.

The driver noticed signs of subsidence on the track as he was crossing at around 6.25pm.

He immediately stopped the train in Malahide and alerted Irish Rail which suspended all services on the northern line.

"He was extremely observant and he immediately raised the alert," he said, noting that the railway control centre also received a red alert on its computer system as the bridge collapsed.

"The scale of the potential for disaster was enormous," he said. "The fact that nobody was hurt and there wasn't a derailment doesn't take away from the fact that this was very close to being a very serious tragedy," Mr Kenny said. All rail services were suspended in either direction from Howth Junction last night as engineers raced to the scene of the collapse.

The Railway Accident Investigation Unit was also called out to the scene last night to investigate the cause of the bridge collapse.

Train services will be suspended north of Howth Junction this weekend and there will be serious disruption to regular commuter service north of Malahide and on the Enterprise line between Dublin and Belfast for weeks to come, Mr Kenny said. "It is a very lengthy disruption we're facing. It will be measured in weeks," he said.

Stranded

Bus transfers were being arranged last night for alternative transport for passengers on the Enterprise line while thousands of stranded DART and commuter passengers were advised to seek alternative transport on Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann. Irish Rail expects it will announce a contingency plan for Northern commuter passengers by next week.

"Tonight the focus is very much on assessing the site but we'll definitely be able to advise people who are commuting by Monday," Mr Kenny said.

Meanwhile, long-time Malahide resident Joan McAllister, whose kitchen on Upper Strand overlooks the estuary, said her husband glanced out the window and saw two of the viaducts arches give way and collapse into the sea.

"Both tracks are gone. There are cables sticking out of the bridge and two of the arches have fallen into the water," she said. Despite the mayhem, some people in the area didn't even notice what was going on, she added. "There were people sailing on sailboards who didn't even notice," she said.

But across the estuary in Malahide it was another story with hundreds of confused commuter train and DART passengers milling about at the station trying to find alternative transport, said local resident Des Byrne. "It's causing chaos. People are getting off trains and don't know what to do," he said.

- Allison Bray

[losexpectation]

Mark Gleeson sings i believe in miracles! extremely poor choice of words for many reasons

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/miracle-as-rail-tragedy-avoided-1775987.html

[chris]

Is there anything else which needs done on the route while this is ongoing?

How about double-tracking the bridge over the Boyne (like it used to be) to enable future hourly Belfast services?

It would have a limited impact on passengers at this time:
- no extra time delay for Belfast passengers for Dublin changing at Dundalk instead of Drogheda and using the M1
- no effect on Drogheda passengers to Dublin
- adverse effects on Dundalk-Drogheda passengers - would need a limited bus substitution between the two for local and Enterprise passengers
- possible adverse effect on Dundalk - Dublin passengers - would need a lot of express buses to serve Dundalk commuters plus the Enterprise passengers (but would this really be worse for local pax than having to change in Drogheda??)

No idea how long it would take to build though.

[James Shields]

I've just been interviewed by RTE for tonight's six o'clock news. I think Mark and Barry will also be on.

[Mark Gleeson]

The situation is becoming clearer

1. A pier collapsed bringing two spans down, I have spoken to someone who has seen it first hand

2. The last train over spotted the beginning of the collapse and stopped in Malahide to report it. That was the 18:07 Balbriggan Dublin. The train in question may be just may be set 29x29 which is currently red carded in Connolly

Problems

1. Only 2 of the 3 enterprise sets are north of the bridge, Belfast hasn't a clue how to maintain a 201 class engine so serious problems ahead. The 3rd set was moved this afternoon for storage possibly hidden in the shed in Connolly or over to Inchicore

2. The entire 180 strong fleet of commuter railcars are based in Drogheda, only limited facilities exist in Connolly, Inchicore, Cork and Limerick, so reliability of the fleet will slide. The depot in Portlaois isn't equipped for lifting 20 m coaches so it ain't much use. Fairview is but lacks the knowledge

3. Tara Mines is effectively closed as they can't shift the ore to a boat.

[ThomasJ]

The situation is becoming clearer

1. A pier collapsed bringing two spans down, I have spoken to someone who has seen it first hand

2. The last train over spotted the beginning of the collapse and stopped in Malahide to report it. That was the 18:07 Balbriggan Dublin. The train in question may be just may be set 29x29 which is currently red carded in Connolly

Problems

1. Only 2 of the 3 enterprise sets are north of the bridge, Belfast hasn't a clue how to maintain a 201 class engine so serious problems ahead. The 3rd set was moved this afternoon for storage possibly hidden in the shed in Connolly or over to Inchicore

2. The entire 180 strong fleet of commuter railcars are based in Drogheda, only limited facilities exist in Connolly, Inchicore, Cork and Limerick, so reliability of the fleet will slide. The depot in Portlaois isn't equipped for lifting 20 m coaches so it ain't much use. Fairview is but lacks the knowledge

3. Tara Mines is effectively closed as they can't shift the ore to a boat.
any possibilty of third party involvement mark beforehand? Maybe something hitting the viaduct?

[Mark Gleeson]

Bridge collapse disrupts rail services

IRISH TIMES REPORTERS
Rail services through north Dublin are expected to be disrupted for several weeks after a viaduct in Malahide collapsed yesterday evening moments after a train passed over it.

About 20 metres of the viaduct over the Broadmeadow estuary between Malahide and Donabate in north Co Dublin collapsed shortly after 6pm.

Iarnród Éireann spokesman Barry Kenny said last night rail services north of Malahide and the Enterprise service between Belfast and Dublin will be closed for “at least several weeks” due to the severe damage to the bridge.

The subsidence began as the 18.07 train from Balbriggan to Connolly station passed over the viaduct. There were up to 50 passengers on board.

The driver noticed the serious subsidence starting and the embankment beginning to give way on the northbound track. He alerted control and raised the alarm at Malahide station.

Mr Kenny pointed out that if the driver hadn’t contacted control, they would have been alerted as the track circuits would have gone when the bridge collapsed. However, Mr Kenny said he was not underestimating how potentially serious the incident was.

Iarnród Éireann said there is “little doubt” the tidal estuary was a factor in the incident. The company is investigating the full circumstances but said the issue was likely to be the viaduct rather than the track.

The rail accident investigation unit of the Department of Transport will also carry out an independent investigation.

Passengers’ representative group Rail Users Ireland said it was a “miracle” people were not killed. Spokesman Mark Gleeson said the incident raised serious questions about the maintenance and inspection regime on Ireland’s rail network.

“This viaduct carries some of the busiest commuter trains in Ireland, it is nothing short of a miracle that the collapse did not result in a serious accident and loss of life,” he said. “While we await the report from the rail accident investigation unit, it is essential that all bridges are inspected nationwide to ensure no critical faults have been overlooked.”

He also demanded cash refunds for all weekly, monthly and annual ticket holders who can no longer travel by train because of the closure.

Some 90 trains a day pass over the bridge. Rail commuters travelling north of Malahide are being advised to travel by Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann services.

Bus transfers are being arranged for services between Belfast and Dublin. A shuttle service is operating between Drogheda and Skerries. Replacement bus services are also running between Dublin and stations north of the city. The Belfast Enterprise service will only run between Belfast and Drogheda, with bus transfers in and out of Dublin.

Iarnród Éireann said local Dart services between Malahide and Howth Junction have resumed, and are operating normally.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0822/breaking5.htm

[James Shields]

Of course if Irish Rail (and the Irish government) been proactive and built the Navan rail link (or never got rid of it in the first place), all of these problems would cease to exist. It might not solve the commuter chaos, but at least it would provide an alternative route for moving and maintaining rolling stock.

[James Shields]

Iarnród Éireann said there is “little doubt” the tidal estuary was a factor in the incident. The company is investigating the full circumstances but said the issue was likely to be the viaduct rather than the track.

Well duh! Looking at the photographs, that's fairly obvious. However, without the viaduct the track is pretty useless.

[coffeedrinker]

so commuter chaos for the next few weeks :( wonder how they'll handle the annual/monthly commuter ticket holders!

My annual ticket expires at the end of September and I was going to get my employer to order my next years one. I for one hope they don't arrange a refund but just allow the annual tickets to be used on whatever amazing contingency buses etc that IR come up with. I'm commuting from Drogheda so whether they provide buses from hte Train Station to town or to Malahide or if I do have to get Bus Eireann, that I can use my Annual Ticket.

Just thinking back to the time of the Skerries derailment, I left my house in Drogheda about 6.30 am and got into work about 4 hours later with a combination of Bus Eireann and Dart, if everymorning is like that this time, i won't have to worry about getting my employer to order an Annual ticket, cos I won't have a job!!

[Aphfaneire]

3 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:


What the hell am i going to do!

I have supplemental exams.

If i pass those i have placement in James's hospital and else where.



We're tight for money and i don't drive yet. I'll have to take the test now, i fecking loath driving.

[Mark Gleeson]

Im told a procedure will be in place to refund anyone with an annual or monthly ticket who no longer wants to (i.e can't) travel with Irish Rail

Its only fair

[steo101]

Hey folks - rgular on boards.ie first time here though.

Anyway, fe pics I popped up on boards already:

Few pics, thmubnails below so you can zoom right in at your leisure. I will get in much closer this evening, lots of IÉ staff on the embankment so I didn't want to risk climbing on top of it as some of the eiretrains folk have done in the past.

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/1858/dscf4145.jpg (http://img2.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4145.jpg)

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/1858/dscf4145.th.jpg (http://img2.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4145.jpg)
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3078/dscf4146d.th.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4146d.jpg)
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/465/dscf4147.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4147.jpg)
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3658/dscf4148e.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4148e.jpg)
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1469/dscf4149x.th.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4149x.jpg)
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2599/dscf4150.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4150.jpg)
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6132/dscf4151.th.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4151.jpg)
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8596/dscf4152.th.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4152.jpg)
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3038/dscf4153.th.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4153.jpg)
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9748/dscf4154h.th.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4154h.jpg)

[Mark Gleeson]

Nice photos

Security has been posted on both sides so don't try to get in closer

Its two spans in the middle are gone, the support pier is 'missing'

[Mark Hennessy]

3 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:


What the hell am i going to do!

I have supplemental exams.

If i pass those i have placement in James's hospital and else where.



We're tight for money and i don't drive yet. I'll have to take the test now, i fecking loath driving.

I have to say this is going to be a total disaster for the folks on the northern line.

I think we can state with a fair degree of confidence that the bus alternatives won't have the capacity and frequency needed to offer a full alternative :(

I think in your case you may be better off trying to find short term accommodation in town or perhaps crash with friends / colleagues during the week. Otherwise you'll have a very tough 3-4 months ahead.

[Mark Hennessy]

There's a before and after shot here clearly showing the missing support.

http://www.opensourcemechanic.com/blog/?p=25

[ThomasJ]

Can i suggest a few things on this thread:

-update the title, remove the date from the title
-have this thread as a sticky in both the travel alerts and the northern line forum

I have a feeling this thread is going to get quiet busy over the next few months

[Thomas Ralph]

Done

[James Shields]

RTE News report from six-one tonight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ8C3Z_soMg

[Colm Moore]

The area above the viaduct is semi-tidal, that is, the tide comes all the way in, but only about half way out. The two things I would be looking at are scour and concrete failure.

My sister flew over the viaduct at about 6pm yesterday and it seemed OK.

any possibilty of third party involvement mark beforehand? Maybe something hitting the viaduct?Highly unlikely. The Broadmeadow Estuary (above the railway) is mostly used by light sail boats, windsurfers, etc. Below, the largest you would normally have is medium to large yachts.

The harbour was dredged about 10 years ago for the marina.

[ThomasJ]

RTE News report from six-one tonight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ8C3Z_soMg

Nicely done james!

[James Shields]

Nicely done james!

And they even spelt my name right for the nine o'clock news!

[Mark Gleeson]

Nicely done james!

Nice Job, RTE needed a real commuter

I'm standing behind the camera for the Barry Kenny piece, my piece to camera will run tomorrow

[ThomasJ]

Nice Job, RTE needed a real commuter

I'm standing behind the camera for the Barry Kenny piece, my piece to camera will run tomorrow

This should be good! I hope you ripped them (ie) to shreads !

[johnjlawlor]

Looking at videos and photographs of the damage to the bridge, I fear that it will take a lot more than three months to fix. I can’t see it being open this side of Christmas. I really hope I am wrong.

[Mark Hennessy]

Tribune reporting today that it could months (>3) to rebuild the viaduct.

I would agree with that assessment, if IE were ready to start rebuilding tomorrow, then Christmas might be the completion time.

But what about investigations, structural studies, new tenders, EIS and then construction and testing?

I know in Victorian times, these things happened quickly, who expects IE to get the bit between the teeth on this?

[James Shields]

The information on commuter arrangements for Monday morning are still worryingly vague:

WEEKDAY COMMUTER SERVICES

Iarnród Éireann are working with Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann to provide enhanced services on existing routes serving the communities affected. Dublin Bus will enhance the No 33 routes serving the Balbriggan, Skerries, Rush & Lusk and Donabate areas, including use of the Dublin Port Tunnel. Details of these services, and service arrangements for customers between Dundalk and Gormanstown, will be confirmed as soon as possible.

In addition, a rail service will operate between Dundalk/Drogheda and Skerries.

Full details will be updated here shortly.

People need complete weekday plans soon so they can make arrangements.

Questions:

Will Bus Eireann accept Irish Rail tickets during the disruption (Dublin Bus normally do, but not Bus Eireann - this could be a big issue for anyone north of Balbriggan)?

Will the "enhanced No 33 bus service" run as a connecting service so that passengers can transfer straight from the train to the bus?

Will Drogheda commuters be able to use the Enterprise replacement bus service?

I know IE have offered a refund on season tickets for passengers who are unable to use the service, but what about a partial refund for passengers who have significantly longer journey times imposed by this disturbance?

[Mark Gleeson]

There where contractors on site yesterday

Most likely outcome is to simply replace the missing pier and a new deck. Can't see a need for an EIS since its a like for like.

I'm told one of the 4 deck pieces is still intact

Irish Rail do have numerous contractors on retainer for general works

[James Shields]

I agree with the need to get the line running again as soon as possible, but isn't there also a need to ensure that it can's fail in the same way again?

Perhaps replacing like-for-like in the short term (with improved inspection procedures), while planning an improved viaduct design for the longer term is the solution.

[tigger1962]

there are new timetables... seems the running the trains to skerries... BUT they telling those heading to dublin to head to drogheda where a bus service will be provided.. this includes from gormanston and layton.

This sounds like chaos in waiting..

eg my normal schedule would have been 6.35 Dundalk to Pearse.. now its 6.35 Dundalk to Drogheda.. hopefully a bus a 7.00 (cutting it fine as the train due to arrive at drogheda at 6.58!) arriving at connolly... god knows!!

on way home.. normally 15.20 from connolly to arrive dundalk 16.20... now

15.00 Connolly to Drogheda then hope to 16.20 Drogheda to Dundalk (presumably the enterprise!) to arrive 16.40..

looks like my cycle to work bit of my journey on hold for 3 months now :(

Does anyone know if refunds will be made available to those on Annual tickets wanting to use alternative means during the upcoming chaos.. especially next month whn schools/colleges start back!
I know my work state that no refunds are available but I found out that this was their policy not CIE's!!

[johnjlawlor]

Just reported on RTE news. Might help to get a few construction workers back to work!

[Mark Hennessy]

Just reported on RTE news. Might help to get a few construction workers back to work!

Tom Parlon is shameless, no doubt they'll be trying to inspect bridges on closed lines too.

[Mark Hennessy]

RTE radio 1 now.

Baz is on to spin the inspection, nothing to worry about here etc.

[williemc49]

Just wondering three months to fix malhide viaduct? If so will all railcars fall into poor condition if they can't get back to Drogheda for maintance.

[Mark Gleeson]

Keep an eye on this link http://www.scribd.com/irishrail

[Mark Hennessy]

It would be great if commuters on the Northern Line could record their experiences for the next few days here.

I can't imagine it will be any fun but we hope to at least get sensible suggestions to ease the burden on commuters back to IE.

[plant43]

Irish Times this morning

DUBLIN’S NORTHERN commuter line as well as rail services to and from Belfast are likely to be disrupted for much longer than the three months estimated by Iarnród Éireann, following the partial collapse of the railway viaduct over Broadmeadow estuary.

Up to 20,000 rail journeys a day, split evenly in and out of the city centre, are to be replaced by road transport over the next three months, the shortest period within which Iarnród Éireann says it envisages the viaduct can be repaired.

The company said Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann and private operators will provide alternative transport, including a special service between Drogheda station and Dublin city centre utilising Dublin Port Tunnel.

Enterprise services will operate only between Belfast and Drogheda, but Dart services between Malahide and Howth Junction are running normally. The measures are to be reviewed next week as the busy back-to-school period gets under way.

In 2003, when a goods train derailment caused part of the Cahir viaduct in Co Tipperary to collapse, it took 11 months for repairs to be carried out. Unlike the Broadmeadow collapse, it did not involve replacing any of the bridge piers.

Engineers and railway safety inspectors, supported by divers, spent the weekend examining the collapsed section of the viaduct – a breach some 20m (66ft) long – and inspecting the remaining 10 piers for signs of any structural damage.

In 1998, a report by International Risk Management Services (IRMS) identified sections of the viaduct as being among the most unsafe stretches of rail track in the country, assigning it a 60 per cent security risk on a scale where 5 per cent is “best practice”.

Fine Gael transport spokesman Fergus O’Dowd TD, who regularly commutes on the line, said questions needed to be answered about what had happened since then.

In its 2006 report on the Cahir incident, the Railway Safety Commission found “serious deficiencies” in Iarnród Éireann’s inspection and maintenance regime and concluded that these shortcomings “were principally responsible for the accident”.

One of the options being considered is to replace the missing section of the Broadmeadow viaduct with a single 20-metre span from reinforced piers on either side of it. However, depending on the outcome of inspections now being carried out, it may be necessary to replace the entire viaduct.

An Iarnród Éireann spokesman said every bridge was thoroughly inspected at two-yearly intervals.

[RonanDonnelly1]

Hi,
How do I go about contacting the investigation team? I noticed something on Thursday and Friday that might be of interest to them. I was on the last train to cross the bridge north-bound before the collapse

[Mark Gleeson]

Good man

You need to get in touch with the RAIU which is a strange off shoot of the RSC

Railway Safety Commission,
Trident House,
Blackrock,
County Dublin,
Ireland.

Tel. + 353 1 206 8110

They will have the number. staff are

Chief Investigator is Dave Murton
Senior Investigator is Cliodhna Loughney
Investigator Jill Cregan

Write down everything now

[irishsaint]

Just learned something regarding any re-development of the viaduct (including repairs). Council Directive 92/43/EEC - means that Malahide Estuary is a designated Special Areas of Conservation (SAC). EIA legislation requires the competent/consent authority to formally decide whether or not a project would or would not be likely to have significant effects on the environment.
The EPA grants the authority but gives a 28-day public consultation period in which objections or requests for oral hearings can be lodged with the EPA by any person or body. How long do you think this could take?
I believe it would be fair to suggest that Irish rails "3 months" maybe only just slightly optimistic.

[Mark Gleeson]

If they simply replace the broken bit with an identical bit then there won't be a problem

If a new bridge is needed then the problems start, however the fast track planning for critical infrastructure would allow a bypass of the public hearing

[irishsaint]

The 20 metre section I should expect to be the same as every other section along the viaduct. If one section is unsafe an collapses and unless structural supports are put inplace for each other section, then I dont believe a simple repair is possible. After cahir, this is just another shambolic display of incompetence from Irish Rail and the supposed management of their Infrastructure.

The 7pm Enterprise from Dublin normally timetabled to leave Drogheda at 19:31. Irish Rail advised me by phone that it will be approx 20:00 (8pm) before it now departs drogheda and maybe later (depends on busses from connolly reaching drogheda) but assured me that it wont leave until all the bussed passangers from Connolly connect for it (unlike friday when 3 busses of passangers scheduled for the 7 train from dublin did not reach drogheda in time for the train they laid on).

[plant43]

1. Only 2 of the 3 enterprise sets are north of the bridge, Belfast hasn't a clue how to maintain a 201 class engine so serious problems ahead. The 3rd set was moved this afternoon for storage possibly hidden in the shed in Connolly or over to Inchicore


Just saw an Enterprise set in Inchicore.

[Mark Hennessy]

I have a monthly ticket for September. Does anyone know about getting a refund? I'd rather buy weekly tickets for Bus Eireann until all this is over.

I think Mark G may have the details and I believe IE are going to offer refunds.

One letter in the Metro today suggested this as the place to start looking for a refund:

http://irishrail.ie/contact_us/contact_service_delays.asp

[Charlie Hungerford]

Quick question: are IE still issuing daily tickets (eg day returns) for the Northern Line?

There's a few occasions where getting a bus with IE from Dublin to Drogheda suits my plans better than the Bus Eireann services.

[Mark Gleeson]

Refunds will happen, but details not published

Keep an eye here http://www.railusers.ie/resources/malahide.php

[Mark Hennessy]

Translink in NI are stating 6 months of closure which seems plausible.

Who honestly trusts to get the whole thing working in 3 months? :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8217069.stm


Transport company Iarnród Éireann had said they expected the line to be closed for at least three months.


Mal McGreevy from Translink said the disruption could last longer
But Mal McGreevy, Translink's General Manager of Rail Service, said it was more likely to be six months.

[Mark Gleeson]

I've spoken to a passenger on the 17:50 who reports the trip over the viaduct on Friday evening was not quite right, the water flow under the bridge was a lot stronger than normal

[Thomas Ralph]

I imagine they haven't reprogrammed the TVMs, so there's nothing stopping you from buying one.

[ThomasJ]

Its a pity we cant get tidal readings or even just predictions for malahide for that date.

I know someone in skerries who me told me recently that high tides had been getting quiet high in recent times.

[Mark Gleeson]

Someone on boards had a graph

Sunday was to be the highest

[Colm Moore]

Tides are a mathematical formula based on the position of the moon, sun and planets, adjusted for local conditions and air pressure.

The Broadmeadow is a special case, the tides above the viaduct are up to 3 hours different to those below - the estuary acts almost like a separate sea for much of the time.

http://www.dusac.org/node/12

Malahide http://easytide.ukho.gov.uk/EasyTide/EasyTide/ShowPrediction.aspx?PortID=0621&PredictionLength=7

This is for Dublin Bay: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61727386&postcount=30

[Mark Gleeson]

Irish Rail has just issued a statement and it appears the bridge pier foundation was compromised in some way by erosion and the large tidal flows did the rest.

Waiting for the full text

Baz is on Last Word right now

Edit He has gone downstairs to Newstalk for the Right Hook, eta 17:23

[Mark Hennessy]

Irish Rail has just issued a statement and it appears the bridge pier foundation was compromised in some way by erosion and the large tidal flows did the rest.

Waiting for the full text



Ergo, not looking good for a quick replacement?

[ThomasJ]

certainly backs up what was said here on boards....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61726969&postcount=9

[ThomasJ]

Latest from RTE
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0824/rail.html

A preliminary assessment has identified significant erosion of the seabed as a possible reason for the collapse of a section of the railway viaduct near Malahide.

Up to 10,000 passengers are facing disruption for the next three months after the bridge across the Broadmeadow Estuary collapsed last Friday.


The collapse has severely disrupted intercity and commuter rail services on the Dublin to Belfast line.

In a statement this evening, Iarnród Éireann said it is believed that in a relatively short time-frame, possibly in recent weeks, that a small breach occurred in a causeway plateau within the seabed.

It said its investigation would also examine other factors, including inspection and maintenance reports and procedures.

The company said it is immediately establishing a team to carry out a detailed inspection of bridges and viaducts across running water throughout the network.

It also said a company board committee is to be established to oversee the investigation and will retain independent advisors.


Iarnród Éireann has the latest information

Commuters who normally use the Belfast to Dublin rail line have been warned to add around 30 minutes to their usual journey time.

Iarnrod Éireann put arrangements in place to provide extra buses for affected passengers.

Belfast Enterprise services to Dublin are running with passengers being transferred by bus between Drogheda and Connolly Station.

A special bus service will operate directly between Drogheda and Dublin Connolly.

Rail tickets are valid on these services. Customers from Dundalk, Laytown and Gormanston can connect to this service by using the Dundalk/Drogheda to Skerries rail services. This service will utilise Dublin Port Tunnel.


Iarnród Éireann said this morning's operation went smoothly with buses collecting passengers from Drogheda and north county Dublin for the transfer into the city without any major delays.

[Mark Hennessy]

Also, how can IE reconcile the extent of the collapse and the damage to the underlying pier structure with an engineering all clear last Tuesday?

In the absence of any major weather events in the 3 days after, something is amiss there.

[Bluetonic]

In the absence of any major weather events in the 3 days after, something is amiss there.
Do you consider the abnormal high and low tides to be a weather event?

[ThomasJ]

It certainly is, its a force of mother nature you wouldn't touch with a barge pole! its not manmade (unless you believe global warming has something to do with it!) :eek:

[Charlie Hungerford]

Irish Rail has just issued a statement and it appears the bridge pier foundation was compromised in some way by erosion and the large tidal flows did the rest.

Obviously Barry forgot what he was saying earlier in the week about not prejudicing the RAIU investigation.

I am a little concerned by this as the RAIU and IE's probes into the Skerries derailment came up with differing findings for several things, particularly regarding IE's maintenance culture.

IE may be trying to get the first blow in this time.

[James Shields]

Also, how can IE reconcile the extent of the collapse and the damage to the underlying pier structure with an engineering all clear last Tuesday?
In the absence of any major weather events in the 3 days after, something is amiss there.

Agreed. Questions will have to be answered about the level of inspections carried out. In particular, I'd like to know when was the last time someone looked below the water line. Also, when was the last detailed inspection, and exactly what is checked at routine inspections?

[Colm Moore]

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.4584963321686&lon=-6.14670038223267&zoom=14

[Mark Gleeson]

Email just in from Irish Rail, details of obtaining a refund will be available either tonight or tomorrow

Anyone who surrenders an annual ticket will get the value left in full, so 6 months left -> 50%

All the issues raised in this thread have been communicated to Irish Rail and they will look at them tomorrow. There is a crisis meeting each morning

[Colm Moore]

What about annual ticket extensions instead of refunds? I'm not sure how it would work.

what use is a refund for someone doing Donabate-Dun Laoghaire - they want performance, not a refund.

I wonder if Skerries could handle on of these? http://images.google.ie/images?hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_enIE285&um=1&ei=tvmSSr6UGs73-Qa07YDzDQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=1&ct=result&cd=1&q=hydrofoil&spell=1&start=0

[The Kew Tour]

This is for Mark Gleeson. I'm just wondering about the train stopping in Skerries. Has this to do with points and changing trains to go on the opposite track? I'm assuming that a service to Donabate and Rush would mean using a single line up and back?

[Mark Gleeson]

This is for Mark Gleeson. I'm just wondering about the train stopping in Skerries. Has this to do with points and changing trains to go on the opposite track? I'm assuming that a service to Donabate and Rush would mean using a single line up and back?

It can be done, there are practiced procedures. There are still two tracks which can be used in an alternating fashion. It has been done before elsewhere in Ireland

[Mark Hennessy]

Do you consider the abnormal high and low tides to be a weather event?

I thought they were anecdotal from local residents though?

If IE were worried about these (and high tides) and had an inspection last Tuesday, why was only the decking inspected etc (according to IE)?

The bridge doesn't exist solely in 2-D space and is supported by the underwater piers so what kind of "full" inspection does not fully inspect all aspects of the structure?

[OisinDunne]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0826/1224253270336.html


From Irish Times:

Alert on possible bridge damage given five days before collapse
FRANK McDONALD, Environment Editor

IARNRÓD ÉIREANN was warned about possible damage to one of the piers supporting the Broadmeadow Estuary rail viaduct five days before it collapsed.

One of the leaders of Malahide Sea Scouts in north Dublin contacted the company to report what he perceived to be erosion damage, along with a recent change in water flow in the estuary. “This wasn’t something that happened overnight,” said one of his colleagues, who did not wish to be identified. “We had noticed a massive change in the water flow over the past two months, with a third of it going through one of the arches that collapsed.”

He said there was “no doubt that the flow pattern had changed” due to the erosion of the causeway beneath the viaduct, creating “rapids” under this arch right alongside the pier than crumbled last Friday.

“White water was spewing through it. One of my colleagues phoned Iarnród Éireann on Monday week and said it was in danger of collapse,” said the member of the sea scout group, which organises canoeing and other water sports in the area. It was as a result of this call that an inspection was carried out the following day. But whatever happened, the subsidence of the causeway was not picked up.

“They did nothing about it. Only when it collapsed did they see the problem. Yet we could see that there was a serious problem developing long before it happened, over a period of two months, and it should have been taken more seriously by Iarnród Éireann.”

The sea scout leader said the causeway was intact in May. But the photographs taken in July showed that it had been breached, and he had given these to the Department of Transport’s rail investigation unit.

The breach had happened weeks ago and “wasn’t noticed” by railway inspectors. “This wasn’t an ‘act of God’, as Iarnród Éireann seem to be suggesting, but something that was going on over a period of two months, and yet they took no action on it – that’s incompetence”.

Iarnród Éireann spokesman Barry Kenny confirmed that the company had been contacted last Monday week by an individual from the area.

“He said there was exposed stonework on one of the piers and was concerned that there was a crack in this pier,” he said.

“The inspection that took place on Tuesday [the following day] found that the markings were cosmetic rather than structural”, he added.

On Monday Iarnród Éireann said it was “completely satisfied that the inspection was thorough, professional and accurate”.Asked whether the call had referred to causeway erosion in the vicinity of the pier, Mr Kenny said “the focus was on the stonework and markings of the pier”.

[roamling]

I have a question here:

I returned my annual train ticket today because its of no use to me anymore.
I take the car now. Lets say my car is in repair and I need to get into town can I still use the buses that were set up by IE, instead of the normal scheduled buses, in order to get into town quickly (under the assumption that I pay the busdriver a fare)?

[Mark Gleeson]

If its a normal Dublin Bus, the normal 33x fare should apply

[philip]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0826/1224253270336.html


From Irish Times:

Alert on possible bridge damage given five days before collapse
FRANK McDONALD, Environment Editor

IARNRÓD ÉIREANN was warned about possible damage to one of the piers supporting the Broadmeadow Estuary rail viaduct five days before it collapsed.

One of the leaders of Malahide Sea Scouts in north Dublin contacted the company to report what he perceived to be erosion damage, along with a recent change in water flow in the estuary. “This wasn’t something that happened overnight,” said one of his colleagues, who did not wish to be identified. “We had noticed a massive change in the water flow over the past two months, with a third of it going through one of the arches that collapsed.”

He said there was “no doubt that the flow pattern had changed” due to the erosion of the causeway beneath the viaduct, creating “rapids” under this arch right alongside the pier than crumbled last Friday.

“White water was spewing through it. One of my colleagues phoned Iarnród Éireann on Monday week and said it was in danger of collapse,” said the member of the sea scout group, which organises canoeing and other water sports in the area. It was as a result of this call that an inspection was carried out the following day. But whatever happened, the subsidence of the causeway was not picked up.

“They did nothing about it. Only when it collapsed did they see the problem. Yet we could see that there was a serious problem developing long before it happened, over a period of two months, and it should have been taken more seriously by Iarnród Éireann.”

The sea scout leader said the causeway was intact in May. But the photographs taken in July showed that it had been breached, and he had given these to the Department of Transport’s rail investigation unit.

The breach had happened weeks ago and “wasn’t noticed” by railway inspectors. “This wasn’t an ‘act of God’, as Iarnród Éireann seem to be suggesting, but something that was going on over a period of two months, and yet they took no action on it – that’s incompetence”.

Iarnród Éireann spokesman Barry Kenny confirmed that the company had been contacted last Monday week by an individual from the area.

“He said there was exposed stonework on one of the piers and was concerned that there was a crack in this pier,” he said.

“The inspection that took place on Tuesday [the following day] found that the markings were cosmetic rather than structural”, he added.

On Monday Iarnród Éireann said it was “completely satisfied that the inspection was thorough, professional and accurate”.Asked whether the call had referred to causeway erosion in the vicinity of the pier, Mr Kenny said “the focus was on the stonework and markings of the pier”.

If this is true then surely some senior heads should roll.

[roamling]

Any idea of what all this will cost?

Cancellation of tickets; paying Dublin bus; loss of revenue from parking charges and the new bridge. I guess its to early to call but I am concerned that there will be a massive drop in revenue that will put IE and other projects in jeopardy.

[citizens7]

Happy days

Irish Rail are to improve the rail service and extend to Donabate on Thursday

This is an issue we had raised with Irish Rail on Sunday and again on Monday, so big thanks to the guys in IE for listening

What about running a better service to Dundalk, such as bus all the way from Connolly to Dundalk station. I had to get home for 5 today, and to be sure I was home in time I have to leave work at 12:55, the printed Drogheda to Dundalk timetable is meaningless ..:mad:

[Mark Gleeson]

Iarnród Éireann will update this site shortly with an enhanced train service between Dundalk - Skerries with extended services to Donabate from Thursday onwards.

Dundalk is included

[irishsaint]

the printed Drogheda to Dundalk timetable is meaningless ..:mad:

I agree - the timetable is completely off - i think its because 8/9 of the trains on that emergency timetable from drogheda to dundalk are enterprise trains which we know can not be depended upon...... the timetable after 18:00 is shocking for dundalk. Most dont leave work till 5, short hop accross the city and bus then to drogheda. realistically, there is only 2 trains that can be relied upon then, the 19:00 and 19:45 (both of which have yet to leave within 10mins of their stated time) - the 20:00 and 21:55 might as well be "lucky dip trains"(enterprise)

[Colm Moore]

I have a question here:

I returned my annual train ticket today because its of no use to me anymore.
I take the car now. Lets say my car is in repair and I need to get into town can I still use the buses that were set up by IE, instead of the normal scheduled buses, in order to get into town quickly (under the assumption that I pay the busdriver a fare)?If you are travelling to the city centre from beyond Swords (single fare €2.20-4.50), it is most likely that a Rambler or Travel 90 ticket will be better value than paying cash.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Tickets/2-Journey-Daily-Weekly/

[markpb]

can I still use the buses that were set up by IE, instead of the normal scheduled buses, in order to get into town quickly (under the assumption that I pay the busdriver a fare)?

I doubt it. I haven't been on the buses myself but I assume the express coaches are private hire and the drivers don't work for IE and can't issue tickets. You could always buy a day return from a train station and use that instead.

[citizens7]

Several extra services Dundalk Drogheda have also been added - see irish rail journey planner

There is still no service to Dundalk between 16:50 and 19:00, there used to be two trains between these times.

[UPDATE] having looked at planner again it seems its only got the times which match the normal enterprise schedule, so even if you select Dublin to Drogheda it only lists the enterprise times and service is "bus", maybe they haven't finished updating it.

[Trampas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-iV2nDopvY

[James Shields]

I'm not condoning their actions, but it's certainly interesting to see the torrent of water still flowing.

Anyway, it's not like they'll be in danger from an oncoming train.

[Mark Gleeson]

The accident has been officially recorded with Brussels

http://pdb.era.europa.eu/safety_docs/naib/view.aspx?id=1468

[James Shields]

I have a question here: I returned my annual train ticket today because its of no use to me anymore. I take the car now. Lets say my car is in repair and I need to get into town can I still use the buses that were set up by IE, instead of the normal scheduled buses, in order to get into town quickly (under the assumption that I pay the busdriver a fare)?

You'd have to buy your ticket first, but I don't expect there would be a problem, and I can't see IE turning the revenue away.

[James Shields]

New Dundalk - Donabate timetable http://www.irishrail.ie/upload/Donabate-Dundalk%20Timetable.pdf

I picked up a copy in Conolly yesterday. Looks a big improvement, though it doesn't give times for the shuttle bus - presumably it connects with the trains.

[Mark Gleeson]

Shuttle bus is peak hours only, will run all day from Monday 31st

[roamling]

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/train-driver-hailed-a-hero-1868844.html



By Robin KIELY

Wednesday August 26 2009

A DUBLIN train driver has been hailed as a hero after his quick thinking prevented Ireland's worst ever rail disaster in Malahide on Friday evening.

Keith Farrelly 'thought he was seeing things' as he noticed signs of subsidence on the track, while crossing the viaduct over the Broadmeadow estuary at around 6.25pm.

He immediately stopped his train at Malahide station and alerted Irish Rail, who suspended services on the northern line.

'The first inkling I had that something was wrong was when I noticed water splashing up to a high level,' Mr Farrelly recalled.

'In that location, it's not a normal thing to happen, so I looked at the northbound line and saw that the viaduct was giving way and that the track was hanging. ' The Dundalk train had just gone over the bridge it was a very close call. I saw the bridge start to collapse as I was going over it. It was a scary situation, surreal.

'I was just relieved that we got past. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, the waves were coming up over the side of it, I thought I was seeing things.' The 33-year-old said he could feel the ballast moving on the line beneath his train, adding his 'defensive driving training' had kicked in.

'I decided to coast the train in, lightly braking, so I didn't put pressure on the track, and ensured we had momentum to get us safely to the station.

' When I arrived at Malahide Station I protected both lines and alerted control. It was such an unreal sight, I started thinking to myself 'did I really see that?'

'But when I walked back, I saw it clearly, and my legs just went to jelly with the shock. I'm just glad that all of us on board walked away from it safely.' Iarnród Éireann spokesperson, Barry Kenny, said different sections of railway tracks were walked three 'times a week', with a major structural inspection every two years, while the viaduct in question had been inspected last Tuesday.

The rail accident investigation unit of the Department of Transport is carrying out an inquiry, alongside an Irish Rail investigation.

- Robin KIELY

pretty scary, the driver of that train certainly is a hero

[roamling]

Barry Kenny from Irish Rail was on Today FM's "the last word" yesterday. He objected the idea that the "cosmetic" cracks the Seascout reported and which were then inspected were the cause of that collapse...

Maybe such statements should only be made after the investigation is over.

[Mark Gleeson]

I've spoken to the Malahide sea scouts (before the IT piece) and their local knowledge is very important and that there was a very large change in the tidal flows. They have several photos, which both IE and RAIU have been given copies

Speculation is unhelpful, we all await the RAIU report

[citizens7]

1058

Thanks Mark, however if you search on Connolly to Dundalk, only the enterprise times come up (showing bus transfer to Drogheda), so it makes it hard to know which bus you should take for the non Enterprise connections.

[philip]

Sure that'll be 18 months or more before it's out and everyone will have quietly forgotten about it. Nobody will resign (as usual).

Barry Kenny has a cheek to be refudiating claims on the one hand but saying we should await the report's outcomes on the other. Who's briefing him? the same engineers who did a sterling inspection of the bridge before it collapsed into the sea as a train ran over it?

[betsey]

With regards to Dublin Bus extra services are on the way from Monday

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Service-Arrangements/

Hi i'm new here, have bee following comments etc on boards.ie. Great they are putting on extra Dublin bus services but none of them serve Balbriggan, we have so far no viable off peak service as Bus Eireann will not take our rail tickets

[Mark Gleeson]

Options from Balbriggan

Train to Skerries, off peak 33x service provided
Train to Donabate, shuttle service meets all trains to Malahide for onwards connection extra Malahide - Dublin trains provided

Train service is now at least hourly if not better

The Bus Eireann ticket situation has been raised with Irish Rail

[ThomasJ]

Hi i'm new here, have bee following comments etc on boards.ie. Great they are putting on extra Dublin bus services but none of them serve Balbriggan, we have so far no viable off peak service as Bus Eireann will not take our rail tickets

Also I would suggest asking the inspector on duty at abbey street, or giving dublin bus a call. I have read elsewhere that some 33X services are continuing on to Balbriggan.

[Thomas Ralph]

Aircoach has started a Dundalk-Dublin Airport service via Drogheda, which might be of some use to people affected by the Malahide viaduct collapse.

[losexpectation]

malahide chamber of commerce has some interesting info
http://newsletters.visrez.com/T/ViewEmail/r/CC5313037DC08F84/CCB8D50710DEAFC12540EF23F30FEDED

Ionrad Éireann has brought in experts from the U.S. to study the weir and foundations of the bridge. They are presently planning to create a new span from pier 3 to pier 5, skipping the collapsed pier. It may then be possible to reopen the bridge while further work is carried out on strengthening the remainder of the bridge. For the moment though, emphasis is being placed on securing the existing structures including the weir.

heard they want the department of marine involved to ensure and rebuild the weir

[James Shields]

I've spoken to the Malahide sea scouts (before the IT piece) and their local knowledge is very important and that there was a very large change in the tidal flows. They have several photos, which both IE and RAIU have been given copies

Speculation is unhelpful, we all await the RAIU report

Speculation may be unhelpful, but isn't that more or less what Barry's claims that the cracks were purely cosmetic and nothing to do with the collapse are?

While the cracks may not have been the cause of the collapse, they may have been a sign that the underlying structure was weakened. As far as I understand, the engineer's examination was purely visual, so what does he have to go on other than cracks like these? Are there tests such as ultrasound or non-visible EM frequencies to examine the underlying structure?

Apologies if this is too much speculation.

[losexpectation]

On Monday last week, the leader of the Malahide Sea Scouts contacted the company with concerns about erosion to the piers.

The following day an engineer inspected the viaduct and found “no visible structural issues, and that all markings were cosmetic”, the company said yesterday.

Two days later, a track monitoring vehicle travelled over the line. This records all dimensions of track, including levels and gauge, and would identify any deviations from normal conditions including those not visible to the naked eye.

It found the railway was operating as designed.

Yet the following day the viaduct collapsed at 6.30pm, moments after a train passed over it. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pressure-mounts-on-irish-rail-to-explain-lsquosystems-failurersquo-1870886.html

[Adrian Marley]

Someone posted this on politics.ie

I can't vouch for its accuracy, but it does seem believable.

Have got into my procession some Notes from an Iarnrod Eireann Meeting this morning in relation to the Malahide bridge collaspe.

1. After Engineer accessment of the Bridge it was agreed that the entire Bridge will need replaced
2. No Temporary measure can be put in place and Train services on the Dublin-Belfast line will be out of service for at least 11 months and beyond
3. Figures are down by 65% on line as of Thursday
4. Confirmation that NIE are seeking financial renumeration for damage to service
5. Driver concern in relation to signals for this fault. Signalling did not work. Mention of Union action
6. They had already discussed the dealings of the Engineer visit to the bridge on the Tuesday following a report from Malahide YC - Nothing more to report only they await a detailed submission


That's all folks - Suppose the mains thing is it will be out for at least 11 months and NIE looking compensation.

[Mark Gleeson]

Given this person can't spell the terminology correctly it looks fake

Its either NIR or Translink, NIE is the NI version of the ESB. IE always use NIR internally
It wasn't Malahide Yacht Club it was Malahide Sea Scouts who reported in
The signaling system worked within spec, radio telephone worked and the secondary protection was applied

And its a viaduct not a bridge

And Malahide Sea Scouts have already made a detailed submission and met with IE and the RAIU over the weekend and Monday this week

[Charlie Hungerford]

I also think that it's a fake for the reasons that Mark has outlined. The signalling system, in particular, seems to have worked as it should.

[Mark Gleeson]

The spelling and grammar isn't great either :rolleyes:

[Charlie Hungerford]

It's important to note that, unlike many other Irish Rail timetables, the timings on the new Dundalk-Donabate schedule aren't padded and are an accurate reflection of potential journey times.

People should also beware of delays between Skerries and Rush and Lusk because the signaling system has been disabled south of Skerries.

The section is now being operated as a single line with a 'pilotman' being used to guide the trains.

Trains from Skerries south to Rush and Lusk and Donabate run on the 'wrong line' so only the northbound platforms are in use at either station. The other line is closed and has had detonators placed on it.

[Mark Gleeson]

Totally rubbished by the most recent news

http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showpost.php?p=48903&postcount=22

[irishsaint]

Totally rubbished by the most recent news

http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showpost.php?p=48903&postcount=22

well at least IE have commenced the repairs... hopefully it is only the three months they are sticking by.... suppose it wouldnt be hard to find keen construction companies in this cimate!

[roamling]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8222435.stm

"...A scout leader has said he warned an Irish train company about erosion on a rail viaduct several days before part of it collapsed.

Ivan Barratt takes scouts canoeing two to three times a week around the Broadmeadow Estuary Rail viaduct.

Mr Barrat said he had noticed serious erosion on the structure on 14 August and phoned to warn Iarnród Éireann.

However, on Friday 21 August a 20-metre section of the Dublin to Belfast railway line collapsed into the water.

The company said an inspection found the damage was cosmetic, rather than structural.

However, Mr Barratt, who said he had noticed worsening erosion on it over a period of several months, said it should have been evident there was a problem.

"I suspect if it was just looking down from the rails (the examination), looking down from above, everything would appear normal.

"But I think if it was a case of getting into a boat of some sort and going out to inspect the arch itself - and it would need to have been when the tide was at the correct height - then it would have been quite evident that there was a problem," he said.

"For somebody without any engineering qualifications it was evident there was a problem, I'm quite sure a qualified engineer inspecting should have recognised straight off."

Mr Barratt said swift action could have prevented the collapse. ..."

[ThomasJ]

Urgent tender out by irish rail for frequent coach service on the Northern line

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=AUG125976

Iarnród Éireann is seeking Expressions of interest for the provision of Coach Hire services for the duration of remedial works following the collapse of the Malahide Viaduct. It is envisaged that the services will be required for a minimum timeframe of 10 weeks. This could change substantially as more information becomes available regarding the extent of the remedial works required.The initial contract is for a frequent service for the various stations on the Dublin Drogheda line north of MalahideThe procurement is urgent and the anticipated timelines are as follows:Close Expressions of Interest 10th September;Despatch Tender Docs - 12th September;Negotiations 23nd / 24rd September;Contract commence - 2st October 2009;
CPV: 60100000.

[losexpectation]

well what about the rumour that the ~4 o'clock driver noticed something wrong and reported it?

[Mark Gleeson]

Good news is a platform with crane is currently being towed out of Dublin Port odds are its for Malahide
1059

[Colm Moore]

Update: http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?p=48919#post48919

[Thomas Ralph]

Today the 1750 Pearse-Malahide is running all stations to Malahide, instead of non-stop from Connolly to Howth Junction. Running as a DMU (4-car 2800) means it'll be slower than the DART.

[Thomas Ralph]

And left 5 minutes late, packed to the gills. Nearly didn't leave at all after an apparent brake issue.

[Mark Gleeson]

Probably filling in for the broken DART

[Des]

I have not seen any comments about what would have happened had the train crashed over the estuary.The potential disaster would be of a scale where the National Emergency Plan would have to be invoked.
Fingal County Council are the lead organization according to the plan.Does anybody know how emergency services could access the disaster site when each side is covered in tidal water ?
None of the emergency agencies have amphibious vehicle.
I suspect we would have to rely on the Coastguard and the RNLI to help out with inflatable boats as road access is non existant.Thats a big ask for eight carraiges full of people .
Does anyone know what resources would be suitable and available for a rail disaster over a bridge in this country?
That is something to think about next time when you are travelling on Irish Rail over a viaduct !!

[Colm Moore]

Without wanting to distract from the sensationalism of your post.

1. A derailment on the Malahide Viaduct does not equate to the train ending up in the water - each track has 4 rails, so as to prevent a full derailment.

2. The deepest point of the Broadmeadow Estuary is about 2 metres. That isif the train ended up in the water, the water would come up to a bit above the table level.

Sure, such a derailment would be a very serious indicident, but rail travel is fundamentally safer than road travel. http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=138

[James Shields]

I'm no expert, but I'm inclined to agree with victor. If a train derailed at that point, I think the most likely consequence is that the ends of two coaches would end up stuck in the water, but that most of the train would remain more or less on the tracks. Passengers would most likely be able to evacuate to adjacent carriages.

However, if it happened to a packed commuter train, I think some injury would be inevitable, and wouldn't rule out loss of life.

[Mark Gleeson]

There has been a lot of talk, there are 4 scenarios

1. Train passes without incident, unlikely

2. Train derails and is contained by the derailment prevention measures. Train stays upright due to the couplers and the anti override devices

3. Train derails and is not contained and falls onto the adjacent track. major damage and injuries but no water

4. Train derails and falls into estuary, aka the doomsday scenario

Option 2 looks the most likely for a modern train

[Des]

My point was not highlighting the potential dangers in travelling by rail.
I was more concerned about the preparedness of agencies which are tasked with implimenting the emergency plan.No one has commented about what could have happened and who would deal with the rescue of a large number of people from damaged rail carraiges.
The point about carraiges falling or not into the water is surely a racing certainty if it was The Enterprise due to its speed at that point on the line doing exactly that.

[Mark Gleeson]

Unless you want to actually try it out, no one will ever be able to show what might have happened, the Enterprise has all modern safety features and would have stayed upright and in line, the Enterprise travels no faster than any other train on the viaduct

There are regular safety drills with the emergency services. The last one took place within one of the tunnels near Greystones which is a very inaccessible location.

The last passenger fatality was in 1983, 26 years ago. In the same period ballpark 9,000 died in road accidents

[Mark Hennessy]

My point was not highlighting the potential dangers in travelling by rail.
I was more concerned about the preparedness of agencies which are tasked with implimenting the emergency plan.No one has commented about what could have happened and who would deal with the rescue of a large number of people from damaged rail carraiges.
The point about carraiges falling or not into the water is surely a racing certainty if it was The Enterprise due to its speed at that point on the line doing exactly that.

I have to agree with your concerns actually.

One has to wonder how prepared all the emergency services (in terms of equipment / training etc) for all types of accidents that could have lots of casualties.

I guess we should never hope to find out.

Apologies for off topicness too.

[Des Gargan]

having read all the posts so far it is obvious that Irish rail haven't thought it through properly. For example, I work late in the city during the week, and finish at around 9.30. There are only two buses back to Drogheda, one at 9.00 and the last one at 11.20 p.m., therefore an almost two hour wait for the bus, which arrives in Drogheda train station after midnight. There are no buses, no links and no trains back to laytown station after 10.00, so making it impossible for me to get home using the arranged transport. I have contacted the customer service manager in Irish Rail, got a wonderful e-mail back about the wonderful arrangements they have in place, but didn't answer my question. "How to I get to Laytown late at night from Drogehda". To me it was obvious that the northern route is extensively used late into the night, with trains pretty well packed up to the 11.20 p.m. service to Drogheda, surely it didn't take a genius to see that people do go to Gormanston and laytown late at night, or are we not important enough to be concerned about.

[Mark Gleeson]

After a good start IE have put up the usual wall of silence.

[Mark Hennessy]

After a good start IE have put up the usual wall of silence.

It is typical of them, consistency when the media spotlight isn't on has never been their thing :rolleyes:

[ThomasJ]

having read all the posts so far it is obvious that Irish rail haven't thought it through properly. For example, I work late in the city during the week, and finish at around 9.30. There are only two buses back to Drogheda, one at 9.00 and the last one at 11.20 p.m., therefore an almost two hour wait for the bus, which arrives in Drogheda train station after midnight. There are no buses, no links and no trains back to laytown station after 10.00, so making it impossible for me to get home using the arranged transport. I have contacted the customer service manager in Irish Rail, got a wonderful e-mail back about the wonderful arrangements they have in place, but didn't answer my question. "How to I get to Laytown late at night from Drogehda". To me it was obvious that the northern route is extensively used late into the night, with trains pretty well packed up to the 11.20 p.m. service to Drogheda, surely it didn't take a genius to see that people do go to Gormanston and laytown late at night, or are we not important enough to be concerned about.

One of the things i would say is rather than contacting the hotline or management. Talk to the staff at connolly they seem to have a better idea of what is going on.

From what i recall in the days after the collapse there was a coach running all stations from donabate onwards and that it looked like this could be a long term thing. Obviously not sadly by the looks of things but i would still check just in case.

[James Shields]

While the replacement bus service in general isn't bad, the frequency after 7pm is very poor. When the train ran there were services at least every hour, and ovten more frequent if you include the Enterprise.

Instead we now have 19:00, 21:00 and 23:20. This compares to train times on 19:00, 19:21, 20:17, 20:33, 20:45, 21:25, 22:29, 23:20. In my experience, all of these trains carry a reasonable number of passengers.

I think buses at 20:00 and 22:00 would at least be warranted.

[ThomasJ]

Just thought i would mention that somrthing cought my eye when getting off the train in platform 5 in connolly.

1. Terminates 67 mins
1. Arrival from Drogheda :rolleyes:

[ThomasJ]

Slightly ironic that the northern ireland tourist board has a banner for heading north on the northbound platform at pearse

[Mark]

They were piling at the site this evening. I could see on my way back from training. Sadly there isnt any decent areas to get a good up close look.

[dermo88]

Thats a good sign in itself. They really can get the finger out when they have to. Not often I have praise for Irish Rail, but the Permanent Way boys are in many ways the unsung heroes in there.

Hopefully it will all be up and running within 3 months. The trouble is that the newspapers will want to sensationalise it on a slow news day, and engage in scaremongering.

Lets face it....we have faced 25 years minus a passenger fatality on Irish Railways, and I doubt that any other Railway system in the world has that record. But it could so easily have been a tragedy.

[Colm Moore]

Lets face it....we have faced 25 years minus a passenger fatality on Irish RailwaysCareful with those figures. Its more 25 years without a fatality in a train accident.

There are still deaths amongst staff, trespassers, people at level crossings and suicides. I do recollect an incident in the late 1980s were some fool stuck his head out a window just before a bridge.

[Mickey H]

I do recollect an incident in the late 1980s were some fool stuck his head out a window just before a bridge.

I think that was actually in Northern Ireland on the 0800 ex Connolly with an Irish Rail mk2 train

[Mark Gleeson]

5 weeks on Irish Rail are still in denial about the viaduct.

The notices still say 'subsidence' which makes it sound like someone elses fault, whereas 'collapse' is the correct term to use.

[chris]

are there any more substantive updates on how long this is likely to take?

[Mark Gleeson]

Its no longer 'subsidence' its now an 'accident' so much for the correct term 'collapse'

Work is ongoing , the collapsed pier has been rebuilt and the remaining piers are being worked on so it looks like it will be reopened within the 3 month window, last weekend in November is the likely date

[Mark Gleeson]

An Enterprise set crossed this morning and if you look from the platform in Malahide there are trains parked on both tracks. Looks to be a Tara Mines train from the distance.

Back in business from Monday